Kno3

[Masked Marauder]

Does anyone know if there are any laws regarding the purchase and storage of small quanities (1Kg or less) of KNO3 or other similar oxidisers?

[Masked Marauder]

Anyone? I need to know before I buy my tomato feed for next year....

[Halski]

not for those small amounts...............

[Masked Marauder]

Thank you!

[wazza]

ooooh is it good for tomato's then? Must tell inIt... we had tomatoes coming out of our greenhouse in 100's this year

[oldcodger]

ooooh is it good for tomato's then? Must tell inIt... we had tomatoes coming out of our greenhouse in 100's this yearYour greenhouse looked like a scene from the worlds best sci-fi movie, I was expecting to see bodies under the plants. Surely you don't need any more?






For the young among you who don't recognise the reference - the worlds best sci-fi movie is ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES

[wazza]

We have not seen inIts mum for a few weeks now, she was last seen entering the greenhouse:twisted:

[Drifter]

lol :D

[Bambi]

hee hee :D

[Masked Marauder]

ooooh is it good for tomato's then? Must tell inIt... we had tomatoes coming out of our greenhouse in 100's this year

Apparently. Not that I have tried it before. I may also find some other use for it, so handy to have. I have also heard there is a use for charcoal in horticulture too.

[VinnyP!]

On a completely unrelated topic ;) Making a statement about explosives is another one of the few exceptions to the right to silence.

[VinnyP!]

Link to another entirely unrelated post :)
http://www.5ive-o.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13110&highlight=explosives

With this equally unrelated extract.

4(1) Any person who makes or knowingly has in his possession or under his control any explosive substance*, under such circumstances as to give rise to a reasonable suspicion that he is not making it or does not have it in his possession or under his control for a lawful object, shall, unless he can show that he made it or had it in his possession or under his control for a lawful object, be guilty of felony, and, on conviction, shall be liable to penal servitude for a term not exceeding fourteen years, or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years with or without hard labour, and the explosive substance shall be forfeited.

*
The expression "explosive substance" shall be deemed to include any materials for making any explosive substance; also any apparatus, machine, implement, or materials used, or intended to be used, or adapted for causing, or aiding in causing, any explosion in or with any explosive substance; also any part of any such apparatus, machine, or implement.


;-)

Luckily I must have been under 10 when I was busy blowing up plant pots and jam jars and making gun cotton and nitro in my friends shed.

[Masked Marauder]

I never thought of that! In any case there are several allowances in the relevent legislation, for example without a licence you are allowed to make up to 100g of BP for "experimental purposes." I notice from the link to the other thread that it is not legal to make fireworks, also I believe you can as long as they are not for public use, again only for research purposes. Although I am not really sure as new legislation was recently passed.


I live in a built up area, small gardens and lots of kids. I won't be messing about with BP.

[VinnyP!]

Wow real criminal law stuff don't get much of that here. This will have to be a dull and longish answer as it is complicated and it's jigsaw legislation.

Firstly the easy part the Explosive Substances Act and the Explosives Act make no such exemptions they say if its for a "lawful object" it's fine.

However it's all down to the "lawful object". The lawful object arises out of the Control of Explosives Regulations 1991 (COER) and Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005 (MSER) . These are about the issuing of 2 different types of permits and this is where the confusion often lies. The first is a permit to acquire the second is to acquire and keep most of the exceptions apply to KEEPING but you still need a licence to acquire.

No one can manufacture explosives without a licence except in certain circumstances.

So lets deal with your 100g. This is one of the exceptions to manufacture but its not so simple because the exemption is ..

a) the manufacture of explosives for the purpose of laboratory analysis, testing, demonstration or experimentation (but not for practical use or sale) where the total quantity of explosives being manufactured at any time does not exceed 100 grams, but nothing in this sub-paragraph shall be taken as authorising any acquisition or keeping of explosives for which an explosives certificate is required by virtue of regulation 7 of those Regulations, without such a certificate;


So if you have a licence to acquire or acquire and keep you can manufacture up to 100g for the purposes above without a manufacture licence. But you still need the licence to acquire or keep.

Next we will deal with fireworks, there are 2 exceptions in terms of the manufacture of fireworks.

(d) the preparation, assembly, disassembly and fusing of firework displays at the place of intended use;

(e) the preparation, assembly and fusing of fireworks, in quantities of no more than 10 kilograms at a time, at a site in relation to which a person holds a licence or registration for the storage of explosives, for the purposes of a firework display to be put on by that person;

So again you can assemble and fuse displays because assembly is manufacture. And if you have an acquire and keep licence you can indeed make fireworks for a display but again you need the acquire and keep licence before you can manufacture.

Now for black powder there is an exemption for 10Kg but it is a KEEP not acquire exception. So if you have an acquire certificate you can keep up to 10kg.




It goes on to say no one shall KEEP for private use anything other than
(a) gunpowder;
(b) smokeless powder;
(c) any propellant made or adapted and also, in either case, intended exclusively for small arms ammunition;
(d) an explosive listed in Schedule 1. (which includes fireworks for 14 days before use)


NB much of this is already controlled elsewhere


This is where the confusion also often arises this is as well as not instead of ie. you need a licence to possess and or keep BUT also if it is for private use you can only keep or possess the above even with a licence. All of these govern the lawful object part of the explosive legislation.


So in summary without a licence to acquire or keep and acquire you can't manufacture any black powder or fireworks. You can keep fireworks for 14 days before using them but cannot acquire or keep black powder or any materials for making BLACK POWDER under such circumstances as to give rise to a reasonable suspicion that he is not making it or does not have it in his possession or under his control for a lawful object Unless he can show that he made it or had it in his possession or under his control for a lawful object. So there being no lawful object S4.1 applies and it's off to chokey for anyone who has KnO3 and charcoal unless they can show a lawful reason for having it. KnO3 without inhibitors is hard to justify since the fertilisers are stupid cheap and work just as well as the really hard to acquire and store pure stuff usually used by chemists bomb makers and salt beef purveyors.


Easy innit.


Lucky it was never your intention.

[Masked Marauder]

The only thing I don't agree with above is that it is hard to aquire 95% pure KnO3 that has no inhibitors in. I have several packets that prove that. All obtained over the counter, all legally and with a legitimate use.

[oldcodger]

I must have been under 10 when I was busy blowing up plant pots and jam jars and making gun cotton and nitro in my friends shed.there are a few pilot schemes running which allow parents of under 10s to be fined and ordered to pay compensation for damage caused by their children.

[7db]

Mmmmm. Cured beef. I prefer a sugar mixture (which curiously when mixed with gasoline forms... oh never mind).

[VinnyP!]

The only thing I don't agree with above is that it is hard to aquire 95% pure KnO3 that has no inhibitors in. I have several packets that prove that. All obtained over the counter, all legally and with a legitimate use.

Good point I should have said in big 10-25KG sacks like fertiliser for Tomato plants etc. There are other legit reasons.

[7db]

the worlds best sci-fi movie is ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES

Deluded. It's clearly Blade Runner.

[VinnyP!]

there are a few pilot schemes running which allow parents of under 10s to be fined and ordered to pay compensation for damage caused by their children.

I promise you when my dad found out it was me that did the paying. :fight:

But I'll send mum along next time you are sitting so you can give her the bill. :D

[Halski]

erm - if you want to see interesting things done with flash powder, chlorate and the like - click here (http://www.sosabowski.com/poster.pdf)