Securing a property

[7db]

Been flat hunting today. I might post later a question later about whether murdering an estate agent mid-bullshit is self-defence, but for the moment I've a question about securing a property.

One place we looked at has a little open area and courtyard at the back. As a lower ground floor, this backs onto a tall wall, which runs up to street level. When out on the street, looking in, the wall is just two feet tall with a little fence on top, and the flat roof of part of the extension is unfenced and an invitation to sit / stand / crawl over and into the property.

Obviously it would be great to secure this -- are there restrictions on putting up fences, barbed wire, etc etc. Are the restrictions legal or planning-type? To confuse things further it's a leasehold property...

Any ideas?

[oldcodger]

you might get some help here

http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/

I have had a lot of very good advice from them.

[Turboderv]

Barbed wire and broken glass etc are a big no no, if someone hurts themselves on that you will find yourself in hot water.

It might be possible to extend the height of the fence so that the overall height is 2m when viewing from outside on the street. This will depend upon the integrity of the wall (is it a retaining wall ?) and any local Planning issues. (I'm not familiar with London Planning and certain parts of it vary from other parts of the country)

HTH

[Dr M]

Barbed wire and broken glass etc are a big no no, if someone hurts themselves on that you will find yourself in hot water.

The glass is a definate no no. The barbed/razor wire is OK, as long as you put up warning signs.

[Turboderv]

I did some digging on this a while ago and found this out. However, any barbed wire which is out of normal reach i.e. 8ft+ high will normally be ignored.



Section 164 Highways Act 1980, says that where, on land adjoining a highway, there is a fence made with barbed wire in or on it and the wire is a nuisance to the highway, a notice may be issued by the Local Authority for the nuisance to be removed.

If the barbed wire is not adjoining the highway and an injury results, you could still be faced with a claim for damages under the Occupier Liability Acts. Occupiers of premises have a duty of care, to people entering or using their premises. This duty even extends to trespassers, although it is not as extensive as it is to people lawfully using or visiting the premises.

[Mickey]

This is one subject that really rattles my cage, you should be allowed to defend your property come hell or high water, and if someone decides to burgle your property and gets hurt in the process then so be it and they should then feel the full force of the law afterwards. We are living in too much of a softly softly world where the good guys are constantly being SH!t on by the bad and the powers that be are constantly on the bad guys side, its about time we had a U Turn. An englishmans home is his castle and all that.

Yes i have been burgled and had i of caught them in the act then im afraid it would of been NO HOLDS BARRED with me, and no doubt some do gooder will say BUT you can only use minimum force. Absolutely but what thought did this scum give my wife when they stole all her jewellery and my daughters worldly goods. Minimum force my Rectum. Anyway in my opinion you should be able to put whatever you like up to defend your property, although unfortunately i know this is not the case in reality, just wishfull thinking!!! MYTH and REALITY :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[7db]

Excellent link, thanks OC, and others. Not sure that barbed wire is the way forward.

Had another look this evening and it's pretty exposed at night. Think a fence is the answer, but it adjoins a road. I suspect this mean planning permission...?

[KrisP]

you might get some help here

http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/

I have had a lot of very good advice from them.

Great link OC, I've had a neighbour boundary dispute erupt this week when they asked me as a County Council officer to say who has responsibility for a patch of grass between two properties. I can only comment on extent of publicly maintained highway and directed both parties to consult title deeds and the Land Registry.

One party sent a Solicitors letter misquoting my original correspondence to them but thankfully I still have the email which covers me.

Kris

[Meridian]

Mickey

That's great, except just because someone is climbing over your fence does not mean that they plan to burgle you. Trival example first: small boy loses bal lover your wall, and instinctively climbs over. Remember: one of the defining features of children is that they tend not to think of the consquences of their actions.

A more serious example: a copper in full pursuit of a criminal - who is trying to evade the police by legging it over people's gardens; a common trick.

Do you really want to be responsible for injuring either of them?


BTW, I thought razor wire required planning permission? As opposed to ordinary barbed stuff. I was told we had to get special permission to put razor wire on the fence around work, even though ordinary barbed wire had been there for years.


M

[pat888]

TAnyway in my opinion you should be able to put whatever you like up to defend your property, :bang:

Mickey 7db says the wall is about two feet high from street level (about eye height for a three year old) do you really think you should be able to put what ever you like on it.

[7db]

It would be dangerous to spike the wall. I'd like to put up iron bars as a fence

[Mickey]

Mickey

That's great, except just because someone is climbing over your fence does not mean that they plan to burgle you. Trival example first: small boy loses bal lover your wall, and instinctively climbs over. Remember: one of the defining features of children is that they tend not to think of the consquences of their actions.

A more serious example: a copper in full pursuit of a criminal - who is trying to evade the police by legging it over people's gardens; a common trick.

Do you really want to be responsible for injuring either of them?


BTW, I thought razor wire required planning permission? As opposed to ordinary barbed stuff. I was told we had to get special permission to put razor wire on the fence around work, even though ordinary barbed wire had been there for years.


M

I appreciate your comments, but i do feel that if your property had ever been burgled and then having to explain this to your son / daughter and clean up all the mess that was left and be faced with a bill for about £500 to repair damage, i feel your response might be slightly different. Yes i appreciate kids lose their balls over walls and things and coppers often pursue criminals over walls and things, i posted without thinking of that to be honest as all i could think about was what the SCUM did to me and my family. Anyway im sure 7db will do the right thing and fortunately the police who eventually came to my property after the said incident were a bit more sympathetic and also the crime prevention officer. I now have an alarm system, dead locks and security lighting, all of which appear to of done the trick so i guess you dont really need all the wire and stuff!

[Mickey]

Mickey



A more serious example: a copper in full pursuit of a criminal - who is trying to evade the police by legging it over people's gardens; a common trick.

Do you really want to be responsible for injuring either of them?





M

Or it could just be that whilst the copper was in pursuit of this scumbag, he then came across my back wall which was full of barbed wire and stopped the scumbag in his tracks, thus allowing the police officer to make the arrest :p :p :D :D Sorry could not resist :D

[7db]

I'm investigating security lighting and also WiFi remote control security cams, which are just the dogs danglies - allows you to watch your back yard from work and move the camera around etc. Nice.

[Turboderv]

You should be able to erect a fence to 2m in height without Planning but it should be checked with the local Planners in case there is a particular reason for it not being allowed. Such reasons can be the location of a side road (the fence could obscure vision) etc. There could be a requirement to use a particular style of fence to blend in with the street scene.

I'd put the barbed wire and razor issue on the back burner TBH you could end up with more trouble than it's worth. IIRC this stuff can only be used where it cannot possibly be touched.

The presence of PIR lighting and CCTV will be a good deterant, there is also fencing available which has a top section which rotates and makes climbing it virtually impossible.

[oldcodger]

I'm investigating security lighting and also WiFi remote control security cams, which are just the dogs danglies - allows you to watch your back yard from work and move the camera around etc. Nice.The legal CCTV wireless cameras work in the same frequency range as wireless computer stuff. If you are transmitting/receiving over a short distance you would probably be Ok unless there is a high power wireless net close by.

Be aware that you can buy handheld receivers with mini screens that will pick up the picture signal. That lets the bad boys assess your security for blind spots without getting out of the car.

[7db]

OC - I was thinking of having it WiFi - so WPA encrypted...

[SB118]

I didn't even know you could get wifi PTZ camera units! Nobody tell Mickey how shoddy i am ;)

[Mickey]

I didn't even know you could get wifi PTZ camera units! Nobody tell Mickey how shoddy i am ;)

You did a good job on me shops mate and im well pleased, maybe the Bungalow will be next just to add that added bit of security. 7 DB has got me thinking and i know you can never have too much security on your property nowadays, obviously within reason!!