Speeding

[GT770]

I was driving down a road that was clearly sign posted as a dual carriage way and was flashed by a speed camera (this is how I know it got me). I received a NIP for doing 41mph in a 30mph zone.

There are a couple of discrepancies on the road:
I joined the road from a roundabout and at the beginning of it it is clearly signed as a dual carriageway. No other speed limit signs were visible. According to the paperwork I received with my NIP a dual carriage way is 70mph unless otherwise signed posted, this road did not have a speed limit sign when you join it.

A little further down the road you then see a 30 mph sign but this is in front of the speed camera so by this point you have probably already been spotted by the camera.

The Speed Camera warning sign is after the speed camera itself.

I was also under the impression that speed cameras were not supposed to flash you from the front but this one certainly did as this is how I know it had caught me. I have since been back to check what kind of camera it was and is says it is a Truvelo on the mount but it definitely flashed like a Gatso would.

I requested a copy of the photograph of me allegedly speeding and it has come back very very dark and there is certainly no clear visible image of me driving the car. It also has a series of numbers in the top left hand corner and I cannot see any that may relate to the speed I was caught doing. The most obvious ones that could be speed are 37.1 and 38.

I would appreciate any advice regarding this and wonder if it would be worth arguing my case in court as I am a bit miffed to say the least and would never knowingly exceed the speed limit.

Cheers

:D

[Masked Marauder]

The Truvelo Combi camera is usually used as a front-facing camera (it can also be rear facing) taking pictures using a flash gun fitted with a magenta filter (the driver is less likely to be dazzled by the flash light), many web sites claim it is infrared and you don't see it flash, but as you know, you certainly do see it flash. The reflected light provides the film with the correct exposure resulting in a clear colour picture of the driver committing the offence (considered as incriminating evidence).

Piezo-electric road strips, a known distance apart (1.53CM from 1 - 3, 2 - 4) are set into the road in front of the camera, and the time between compressions is measured using an impedance converter and two clocks in the camera to give the resulting speed of the vehicle. The system takes a single photograph (front facing only, two for rear photography) and uses the time from the clocks to calculate the resulting speed. The photograph of the offending vehicle will show its front tyres on the three narrowly spaced white lines across the carriageway (known as a Secondary Speed Check Lines), the middle line is 1.8M from the last sensor, the first and third are 18CM either side of the middle line = 10% which are present at all Truvelo installations. This is to identify the offending vehicle when it is travelling alongside a non-offending one.

For front facing photography there are two sets of Piezo sensors that are linked as 1 - 3 and 2 - 4 in the road for Truvelo camera, both taking independent readings, if the two do not match (±2mph) the offence is discarded.

If you can get back to the road and check the signage etc. for discrepancies then all the better as the evidence from the camera is normally not disputable.

[Masked Marauder]

Oh and the speed should be the three digits in the bottom left hand corner of the information box on the photo.

[wazza]

If the dual carriageway is within the confines of a 30 mph zone the speed limit remains 30 mph, In some area's you do get 2 lane roads (Not all are classed as dual carriageways) and the speed limit will always be 30 mph and repeaters will normally be present.

In High Wycombe Bucks the A40 goes over a flyover in the town centre and it becomes a 2 lane section it is still within the restricted area of 30 MPH and it does have 30 MPH repeaters on it. You need to check to see if that section of road is within a restricted 30 MPH zone....

You said " A little further down the road you then see a 30 mph sign but this is in front of the speed camera so by this point you have probably already been spotted by the camera.

Hmmm is this a large 30 mph sign or possibly a repeater one ?

[GT770]

The areas in question has several speed limits. Ranging from 30-50 mph. I have lived in the area a long time and know that it never used to be a 30mph limit.

I think it may be a case of a new speed limit for the road but poor use of road signs.

I know 3 other people who have been caught by this camera since i have.

The 30 mph sign further down the road is one of the smaller ones that you see but is definitely the only one on his stretch of road; believe me I have been back down there twice just to make sure.

;)

[GT770]

Off to bed now as work in the morning but thanks so much for the advice and information it is much appreiciated.
I will be back tommorow.

;)

[wazza]

The 30 mph sign further down the road is one of the smaller ones that you see but is definitely the only one on his stretch of road; believe me I have been back down there twice just to make sure.

;)

then it defo is within the Built up area speed limit of 30 mph and sorry but banged to rights.......

[LXT]

Did the dual carriageway have street lighting? If so it's 30mph in the absence of other speed limit signs.

[Masked Marauder]

Did the dual carriageway have street lighting? If so it's 30mph in the absence of other speed limit signs.

A common, but incorrect assumption.

[queenjane]

A common, but incorrect assumption.

now you're getting into the realms of measuring the distance apart of the street lights....??

the above is an assumption, granted, but it is an assumption that few drivers,in reality, wish to make...it's such a boring one!

Far better to scream along at 50, until one finds out otherwise...than to stay within 30mph, until signage tells one otherwise......which is doubtless why, so many get caught speeding......[and why so many fail their driving tests?}

The question I would ask is, what indeed WAS the last speed limit signage passed?

Including, prior to the roundabout mentioned?

Many roundabouts I've seen, have speed limit signs prior to the junction...which apply also to all roads OFF that junction.......has this point been missed by the OP?

[GT770]

Each road off the roundabout varies. Two are 30mph, one is 40mph and the other is 50mph all signed at the beginning. The question about the road that i was on was that it was not signposted with a speed limit at the beginning of the road you only see the 30mph sign (which there is only one of) when you get approx 4 metres in front of the speed camera. There is also no road markings that the speed camera would use to calculate my speed so it must be fixed on another point on the road.

I was travelling up the road at 40 mph which i have done so or numerous occasions previously. It may be a factor that the road recently had some work done to it and the speed limit has now been reduced to reflect this but my main point is the lack of signs for the speed limit. I would quite happily hold my hands up if i was caught and just ignored the speed limit of the road but if the council or whoever maintain the road signs do not display them correctly them i feel it is my right to fight it in court and make sure that they are changed.

May i also add that it is not a built up as such, there are approximately 3 shops set back from the road and no houses.

Thanks again for your continued comments and advice.

[wazza]

Each road off the roundabout varies. Two are 30mph, one is 40mph and the other is 50mph all signed at the beginning. The question about the road that i was on was that it was not signposted with a speed limit at the beginning of the road you only see the 30mph sign (which there is only one of) when you get approx 4 metres in front of the speed camera. There is also no road markings that the speed camera would use to calculate my speed so it must be fixed on another point on the road.
.


Then if no speed limit is posted for that road, the previous speed restriction on the road you came off applies... there has been no change. If the dual was a national then The derestriction sign would be so posted.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:xA6bfxtFvgz7KM:http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/MES2605.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/MES2605.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.worldofstock.com/closeups/MES2605.php&usg=__mh8MBQsdKBK-SBZFMLXcDBAPCn8=&h=499&w=332&sz=47&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=xA6bfxtFvgz7KM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=86&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnational%2Bspeed%2Blimit%2Bsign%26hl% 3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7RNWN%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1)

[GT770]

Cheers Wazza. May have to just accept and take my punishment but will do a little digging first and clarify what speed limit was previously used on the road before the work.

[wazza]

:tup: Just remember the speed limit of the road is the one marked, unless signs dictate otherwise iether before or after a hazard, the speed limit remains unchanged.

[VinnyP!]

There are a couple of discrepancies on the road:
I joined the road from a roundabout and at the beginning of it it is clearly signed as a dual carriageway. No other speed limit signs were visible. According to the paperwork I received with my NIP a dual carriage way is 70mph unless otherwise signed posted, this road did not have a speed limit sign when you join it.

Only if it doesn't have a street lights. If it does then it's 30 unless signed.

[VinnyP!]

A common, but incorrect assumption.
81(1) It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding 30 miles per hour.

RESTRICTED ROAD
82(1) Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 84(3) of this Act, a road is a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of this Act if:

(a) in England and Wales, there is provided on it a system of street lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart;
(b) in Scotland, there is provided on it a system of carriageway lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 185 metres apart and the road is of a classification or type specified for the purposes of this subsection in regulations made by the Secretary of State.

85(5) In any proceedings for a contravention of section 81 of this Act, where the proceedings relate to driving on a road provided with such a system of street or carriageway lighting, evidence of the absence of traffic signs displayed in pursuance of this section to indicate that the road is not a restricted road for the purposes of that section shall be evidence that the road is a restricted road for those purposes.

So lights and no signs are 30MPH

[Malky]

"In some area's you do get 2 lane roads (Not all are classed as dual carriageways) and the speed limit will always be 30 mph and repeaters will normally be present."

Repeaters in a 30 mph zone??

Please clarify


Regards

Malky

[wazza]

"In some area's you do get 2 lane roads (Not all are classed as dual carriageways) and the speed limit will always be 30 mph and repeaters will normally be present."

Repeaters in a 30 mph zone??

Please clarify


Regards

Malky

yes repeaters in a 30 mph zone.......

You will get these where (a) No street lights are present to show it is a restricted area and (b) where the road is so configured like a 2 lane section where you might think it was a higher speed limit, (c) where the street lights are further apart than the minimum requirement for a 30 mph (unsigned) zone.

[Malky]

Yes Wazza, it was early and I cross matched info' in two of the posts (GT770 and VinnyP's) relating to the available street lighting. Old age and early mornings. What can I say??

Regards

Malky

[queenjane]

Old age and early mornings. What can I say??

Regards


hey, that's MY excuse.......

[queenjane]

Each road off the roundabout varies. Two are 30mph, one is 40mph and the other is 50mph all signed at the beginning

why not pop along to the roundabout again...but approach along one of the roads that is under the 40 or 50mph limit.

If [as we suspect] the roundabout itself is a 30mph limit, then you ought to see 30mph signs where the higher limit end, at the entry to the roundabout??

Therefore, any exit road off the r/bout that has no higher speed limit signed for, will also be 30mph?