Cycling abuse / attack

[funracer]

I work in a bike (cycling) shop and its quite shocking the number of our customers that are verbally abused, attacked or even killed whilst out on there bikes. You hear the same sort of things from most bike shops but no one really does anything about it. Most people don't even report incidences and the general thought is the police would not do anything even if you did. So I am just thinking about printing up some leaflets encouraging rider to report incidences and providing the local police number to rapport it as I think a lot feel they should not call 999 for such things. Good plan or am I wasting your and my time?

[jamesson]

If a crime is in progress, ring 999. If the event is historic, ring your police force's non-emergency number.

Please tell your friends and colleagues to report incidents where they have been threatened or attacked. You are wasting nobody's time by doing so.

You mention people being killed whilst on their bikes. Are you talking about road traffic accidents where the result is a dead cyclist or a deliberate attack which results in someone's death?

I would like to think that whatever the circumstances which lead to someone being killed, the incident is reported!

[spinlondon]

Had a van driver ram the rear of my Motorcycle, as I was allowing a car to turn right across my path.
I pulled over up ahead, and the driver swerved at me as he drove past, causing me to jump out of his path.
When I followed the driver started driving eratically preventing me from pulling alongside or overtaking.
Phoned 999, and was informed that it was an RTA, and should be reported at a Police Station. They refused to send a car, as they didn't consider the attempt to run me over, or the erratic driving to be serious enough.
I wonder what they would have advised, if he'd just fired a pistol at me instead?

[funracer]

Thanks Jamesson I will tell spread the word.


I don't know the exact nature of the incidence of people being killed. One was a truck that had not seen the cyclist and he went under the back wheels. The other was a chap riding to work when for whatever reason the car did not see him and just drove strait in to the back. The last one a retired couple were off the road fixing a flat when a car swerved off the road. The first two it was the Police that came and told use about it. The last one though the guy was local he was a long way away when he was killed.


Attacks are not uncommon though. Some are quite viscous. On of my old friends was attacked the other month. Her boy friend was knocked out and the attackers beat him on the ground. This was reported however I don't think anything has come from it of yet.


The most common sort of attacks are drivers who will block the road in front of your and often try and pull you off the bike or just push you. I have had this happen to my self.


On a different spin its more common spin is people throwing things out of cars. I have had a bottle thrown at me just outside of my work. There is also a doctor who has just moved here who got him self a bike and within the for week he had a full beer can thrown at him. This nicked him off his bike and did quite a lot of damage to himself and his bike.


My experience is similar to your Spinlondon. My self and a friend were intentionally forced off the road by a car driver who was swearing at is and so on. I called the police and the women on the phone would to have any of it. She said something about unless there was witnesses they can not do anything. At that point I got really quite upset with her and asked if there is nothing they can do. Anyhow the conversation went on and a Police officer ended up turning up at my work. All credit to him though he outlined the problems they had and so on. He agreed to go have words with the guy. Apparently he was not a very nice chap and the office gave him a section 59 warning I believe.


Sorry for the rant

[Bex]

I've had problems when on my (push)bike aswell. A lot of drivers feel that cyclists should not be on the road, so they make it as difficult as possible for them. I've had a few lit cigarettes thrown at me before. Not sure if they knew I was there but I had lights, and lots of hi-viz on!!!

[Nightfire]

This cuts both ways. On my journey home from work I come across numerous cyclists riding in the dark (even worse in rain) with absolutely no lights. Then there's the lycra brigade who feel that it's fine to ride three abreast along busy single carriageway roads in bunches of twenty or thirty causing a mobile chicane.

THere are two sides to being responsible road users.

[queenjane]

I'm on both sides with this problem.

There is a real issue regarding driver perceptions of who the public highway is for.

The slower road user in front shouldn't be allowed out....the person overtaking is a hooligan and should be barred from using the roads....

and where are the Police when all these things occur? Probably too busy stopping innocent motorists just because they were exceeding the speed limit?


The bigotry and ignorance of people drivng around on our roads begger's belief.

but it is a fact of life.

From a cyclist's viewpoint [and that of any vulnerable road user..I get the same when riding my Honda CG 125.....]I can appreciate the frustration and fear they suffer every time they go outside....because they are ''unaccountable''...or so it seems, they feel neglected and ignored.

Asmy ex-wife said the other day, there is no honour or morality left in society these days...people are only too keen to deny, or wriggle out of , accepting responsibility for their actions...

witness the wriggling and protestation we have seen in the past on these forums over being 'caught ' by technology commiting an offence?

driver attitude, and the private motorcar have turned our public highways into battlegrounds....Mad Max is already here......and the authorities cannot cope.

To be fair, many cyclists have developed the attitude of being something 'special' on the roads...fostered by sugggestions that all motor vehicle drivers become financially responsible /liable if in a collision with a cyclist......this doesn't help attitudes....and fosters antagonism an all sides.

road rage...for that is what it is, all too frequently occurs on all sides.


regarding night riding..I observe far too many cyclists who take a flippant attitude towards the law, lightling, and being visible.

those little flashing red lights, for example.....fine whilst viewed from a distance of a few yards, in clear visibility, they draw one's attention.

Downright useless when at a distance of several hundred yards, in the rain, from the inside of a vehicle travelling at 50 mph!

yet so many cyclists rely purely on this red flashing light...and is a flashing light actually legal for a tail lamp?


no one seems to want a large-lensed big red light on thier bike any more......and many cyclists think, because they can see it, so can everybody else.

all too often my first, if not only realisation there's a cyclist on the road ahead, is by catching sight of the reflective pedals!


cyclsits...this simply is not good enough.

If you want to go some way towards ensuring better safety at night, then ensure you can bee seen...and from a good distance too.

Don't expect drivers to see you...help them to see you.


remember, as a cyclist, you are not viewing the road ahead through a glass windscreen.......maybe even, you are not truly affected by all the horrendous, so-called safe, high intensity headlights out there.


TAke it from me...I have the old-style lights...good enough on their own....good enough in their day...but totally useless in a head-to-head with modern high intesnsity lights.....so whilst a new car driver sees more, I see less..........and strangely..there are more older headlights out there than new ones.

all an example of the total selfnishness engendered by modern car designers and manufacturers.....fine if their customers are safe, stuff the rest of you!


cyclists......there are many exclusive cycle paths/lanes/areas for cyclists to follow...free from cars..yet cyclsits still persist in riding on the main road, instead.

OK, I appreciate one cannot ride a racing bike down a cycle path, at the speed one would like to achieve...but...so what?

they have been placed there to segregate the vulnerable cyclist from the harder-hitting motor vehicles.


Would you all rather the authorities ripped them up?



this is a major beef on the part of drivers........cyclsits who refuse to use cycle lanes/paths.


so in many ways, cyclists themselves generate driver anger.

and yes, it really is a case of some cyclists ruining it for all the others.


In my favourite motor sport, we come across the same, beligerent attitude from ramblers....totally unjustified in my/our case.....so no wonder I possess an [equally unjustified, I'm sure] attitude towards the rambler .


neither one side, nor the other, gives a damn any more........all of which leaves those of us caught in the middle without much hope?

[queenjane]

PS...it's about time this country had a dedicated public highways police force...a ''Highway Patrol?'

Financed by central government...and responsible for policing our entire road network.

we already have the HATO, and the specialised BT police....so why not go one step further, a national transport police?


This would then end the pathetic campaigns staged by cash-strapped local constabularies....even the rather silly boundary system....


and maybe, there will be a return to some sense of discipline on our roads?

otherwise, all the laws, regulations that exist for roads will be effectively un-enforceable due to budget and manpower constraints.

[Bex]

cyclists......there are many exclusive cycle paths/lanes/areas for cyclists to follow...free from cars..yet cyclsits still persist in riding on the main road, instead.

OK, I appreciate one cannot ride a racing bike down a cycle path, at the speed one would like to achieve...but...so what?

they have been placed there to segregate the vulnerable cyclist from the harder-hitting motor vehicles.


Would you all rather the authorities ripped them up?

Would be nice if they could cut back some of the trees and bushes from some of these paths!!! Oh and find a way to stop pedestrians walking on them. IMO bikes sharing a path with pedestrians is more dangerous than bikes and cars!!!

[queenjane]

maintenance is an ackward issue, I grant..round here they're pretty good at it.

However, I take issue wit thelast part.....there is a huge differential in weight, between a car and a bycyle [plus rider] and a cyclist and pedestrian.

In my personal experience, with the latter a rider will come off worse.......round here, the paths are well defined.,,,but where there are exclusive cycle tracks...not shared with pedestrians [although there is nothing physical stopping them]......for example,at busy roundabouts....cyclists who still use the roadway do create issues with drivers.


big problem cyclists have, is the knowledge car drivers have of the lack of identification..hence accountability, that cyclists have.


it only takes one cyclsit to ignore a red traffic light, for car drivers to be up in arms....for weeks afterwards.

[Mickey]

A good topic of conversation however i feel you might be waiting for a long time for some of this wish list lol I guess you can live in hope though, on a serious note i must admit i hate darn pushbikes to be honest and hate it when they slow my progress and ride through red lights and just go up and down pavements and then on the road as and when it suits, but haveing said that they have as much right to use the roads as we car drivers do, therfore no matter how frustrated i can sometimes become with them i would never even contemplate doing some things that have been mentioned!!

The only thing i would like to see to ensure safer riders maybe is some sort of insurance introduced for bike riders as i have seenplenty of cars damaged by pushbikes also!!!

Ride free though folks at least its good exercise for you.

[Bex]

How much would insurers charge though? As cars are so much more expensive than pushbikes, how would they price it? And would it just be for Cyclists that ride on the road? How would that be managed? Also, would Bicycles then need registration plates? That would be ridiculous!!!

I am a keen cyclist (well I would be if I could have my bike here!!) and I would be totally against having insurance for my bike. In fact it would incourage me to just ditch my bike and get fat!! I think maybe there needs to be more education in cycling. As all I got was a week cycling proficiency and a pass or fail which doesn't mean anything! And we didn't come across any traffic lights or big junctions or roundabouts in the whole course. And I believe that some schools don't do it at all.

I do think there needs to be a law of some kind for the lights and visible/reflective clothing, as that is a major safety issue. I wear loads of reflective stuff just because I want to be seen! But a lot of people have a view where, if it isn't law, they're not going to do it. Or maybe they should just be left to learn from mistakes? But how many other people are going to suffer?

I personally believe that parents should be responsible for their children's upbringing, and for themselves! I feel that because they govt have made this blame culture, no one takes responsibility anymore. It's always someone elses fault. I think that if people snapped out of this, then they would think for themselves and not have the kind of attitude where they know there's going to be someone else to blame....so it's ok!!

[clinka]

I witnessed whilst on duty a road rage incident involving a motorist and cyclist. The motorist got grumpy because the cyclist jumped a red light and the motorist took avoiding action to stop the cyclist being hit. The cyclist got grumpy when the motorist gave him a lecture. Even when my colleague and I stepped in, the cyclist could not see what he had done was wrong. Apparently, his words, not mine, cyclists do not have to stop at red lights, they are "proceed if clear". He also thought it was acceptable to hop on the pavement if the road was not clear so he did not haev to stop at the red lights. And yes, we were told we should be out doing something more in line with not wasting tax payers money.

And please don't get me started on lights! No, a flashing red light on its own showing to the rear on a bicycle is not legal and it states this quite clearly on the packaging. But then fog lights when its not foggy also rattles my cage.

Which brings me on to cycle paths, footpaths and beauty spots. Cycle paths are for cycles, footpaths are for pedestrians and beauty spots are not toilets for your dog and neither are they appropriate places for a bit of nooky!

Aaaarrgh, someone take the soap box away, please.

As QJ has stated, a little more respect for each other would not go amiss.

[LXT]

Flashing lights on pedal cycles have been permitted since 2005 - The Road Vehicles Lighting (Amendment) Regulations 2005 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20052559.htm), s6.

The changes allow flashing white lights at the front and flashing red lights at the rear.

[clinka]

I stand corrceted, but perhaps you would like to explain the rest of the amendment as well.

[jamesson]

As I understood it, bicycles were allowed to have flashing white and red lights front and rear but these had to be accompanied by solid white and red lights to the front and rear respectively.

Has the latter part changed?

[spinlondon]

As I understood it, bicycles were allowed to have flashing white and red lights front and rear but these had to be accompanied by solid white and red lights to the front and rear respectively.

Has the latter part changed?
That's my understanding as well.

[fatboyjim154]

it only takes one cyclsit to ignore a red traffic light, for car drivers to be up in arms....for weeks afterwards.

It only take one of (insert what you don't ride drive in or on here) to have anyone up in arms fore sometime afterwards.

[wazza]

Some Cyclists just dont help themselves do they, They dont wear helmets or reflective and hi vis clothing, they wobble around in the road, ride on fast A roads and dual carriageways, mainly without lights on...... and now they want to bring it in that when a cyclist gets knocked off his bike, no matter waht the cause... IT WILL ALWAYS BE THE CAR DRIVERS FAULT. Now that STINKS.
In Milton Keynes we have RED WAYS for cyclists, some use them others dont and no matter what this country does for cyclists they want more. Stopping zones at Traffic lights ahead of the cars, so the car driver has to battle past them at each and every junction. The cyclists sneak up the inside of Q's, and put themselves in danger exp along side large trucks. No Entry and One way streets oh and traffic lights mean nothing to them. AND STILL THEY WANT MORE.
Dont get me wrong I have a bike...(dont use it much at all) Police forces and companies have ride to work schemes where you get an expensive bike cheap, and dont actually use it to go to work on.....
WHAT NEXT ?????????

[Bex]

I think bad/naughty cyclists are just as bad as bad/naughty car drivers.

:D

[queenjane]

of course they are Bex......I've even seen naughty sheep-herders.

Theproblem regarding the total disregard for the law....from both drivers and riders, is that we have had many years of minimal enforcement.

so riders and driver s KNOW they can get away with all sorts of behaviour.


In fact, as Clinka pointed out, we have got to the stage where [a] enforcement is seen as a restriction of rights and privileges...

and [b] the lack of enforcement has existed so long, that many believe such laws and regulations do not exist.

education, I believe, is a waste of time......those upon whom it would have an effect, are more than likley those who would behave responsibly anyway......

the rest would consider it a waste of their time, and have no regard or care anyway.


we have been promised more Police time, ''on the beat''.

Perhaps more compact beats may be next?

Certainly, the authorities have shown the way regarding deterrants, with the use of deprivation....as applied to vehicle drivers.....ie, impounding the vehicle.

Perhaps what is then needed is a more robust approach with cyclists who flout the law..namely, impounding their machines?

If the chances of being ''caught'' were drastically increased...[and the greater likleyhood of ending up a pedestrian that particular day ] then maybe those who ought to know better will have a change of behaviour??


A tad authoritarian, I know...and one step nearer to a police state....yet, it appears we are truly unable to police ourselves......so must have it doen for us??

[7db]

Give cyclists three points on their driving licence if they are caught jumping red lights on their bike.
Many of them drive or would like to drive, and that kind of penalty is expensive.

Situation in London is now ridiculous. I wouldn't cycle here -- it's way to dangerous. At least if the cyclists are badly behaved they get squished. The buses I've seen bully motorists, cyclists and pedestrians and they will never be squished.


I have this ongoing fantasy of getting some mime artists to act out stretching a wire at neck height across a red light and see if that stops the cyclists jumping the lights.

[clinka]

As I understood it, bicycles were allowed to have flashing white and red lights front and rear but these had to be accompanied by solid white and red lights to the front and rear respectively.

Has the latter part changed?

It would appear so. Flashing lights are permitted according to the amended regs, but there are specifics added regarding number of flashes in a minute (more than 60 less than 240) and also if the light is capable of being on permanently, it must conform to a British Standard. Without looking up the amended regs again, I do not know the number. I was hoping LXT was going to elaborate for all.

Have to say that this is ludicrous though on grounds of safety. Certainly I had a look at a few websites for cyclists and the recommendation is tht have a fixed lamp to front and rear and support it with a flashing light.

[LXT]

I stand corrceted, but perhaps you would like to explain the rest of the amendment as well.

There are some good explanatory notes at the bottom of the regulations:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20052559.htm#ex

But the basic changes are:


To add other vehicles to the list of vehicles permitted to use blue lights and amber lights
To allow cycles to use emergency beacons (e.g. police cycles)
To allow flashing red and white lights to cycles and their trailers (without the need for a steady light as well)

The DfT has published guidance relating to bicycle lighting here:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/guidanceaboutlightsonpedalbi4556

Regarding the standards markings - taken from the above link:

If either of the lights is capable of emitting a steady light, then it must conform to BS 6102-3 and be marked accordingly, even if used in flashing mode.

Purely flashing lights are not required to conform to BS6102-3, but the flash rate must be between 60 and 240 equal flashes per minute (1-4 per second) and the luminous intensity must be at least 4 candela. (This should be advised by the manufacturer).

[MartinHP71]

Give cyclists three points on their driving licence if they are caught jumping red lights on their bike.


Why not just take their bike away. No lights, cycling offence take away the bike. If its for lights don't give it back until such time they have brought the lights and fitted them to the bike. But not points.

The excuse I have heard before is that there is no room for the bike, no problems I will set up a company going along uplifting bikes and storing them for a release fee, just as they do for cars which have committed certain offences.

[clinka]

LXT - thanks mate

[queenjane]

The excuse I have heard before is that there is no room for the bike
use them to combat coastal erosion?