Underbody Neons - The real legality of them??

[clubcalibra.com]

Hello guys!

I'm new to the forum, my name is Ashley Hall, and own/run ClubCalibra.com, a massive community of users that I hope to bring to introduce as users of this forum.

My main question however...I've just fitted a full Underbody Neon kit to my car (view the car here ... http://www.clubcalibra.com/section/interactive/forum2002/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4601), and I'm wondering what exactly is the legal issue relating to their use whilst driving? AND if I was pulled over what is the police officer entitled to actually do/fine/points!?

Would appreciate your help, and if possible to hear from other road users that have Neons, what are your experiences relating to police pulling you?

p.s. I have a large and active forum on Clubcalibra.com dealing with many issues, having just created a forum concerning 'Traffic Law and Order' I'm seeking a few moderators, if any traffic/general police staff fancy becoming high authority moderators in this forum, please email clubcalibra@a-hall.com - thanks ;-)

[clubcalibra.com]

Anyone here!?

[Mice_Elf]

Plenty of us, but bear in mind that we all have jobs to do as well. The police presence on here don't always have access to a computer.

It's only been an hour since your initial post.

[clubcalibra.com]

Sorry, guess I'm used to the response times on my website - generally between 1-5 minutes.

I'll be patient... ;o)

[Mice_Elf]

LOL....Well, there are <10 officers on this site (to the best of my knowledge) so it can take a little while. :)


Welcome to the froum, btw! :D

[clubcalibra.com]

Cool, no probs dude thanks for replying, I'll sit around for a bit, hehe!

[Danbo]

Its one of those tricky questions because there is no 'specific' law relating to the use of neons. However there are other construction and use laws that can be interpreted to include neons and the displaying of lights of this type.

Its a bit of a grey area as far as I know and to give any definitive answers on my part will take me a bit of research.

If none of the other Feds can help out in the meantime I will have a look into it later on. But I'm sure someone will post a more detailed answer before i do!

And as Mice says, we sometimes will take a while to answer questions, due to work commitments and also the fact that we do need to research some of our answers to ensure we are being factual. :)

[clubcalibra.com]

Nice one Danbo, appreciate the help. In my area (Somerset) most of the cops haven't a clue what Neons are, let alone their legality - upon phoning my local station they couldn't tell me, and asked me to call back during a busier hour when the place is a little more populated with officers that might know!!

Primarily, I'm confused as to whether it'd be a case of getting...

- A Warning
- Points (FPN)
- A Fine
- Both!! (worse case)

Thanks once again.

[Dracoro]

I'm not a plod but here's my 2p (take with pinch of salt ;))

From the front, the lights/refectors must be white/clear and amber. From the rear - white, amber and red are allowed.

I don't think any other colours are allowed.

From the side I'm not sure but I guess only amber is permitted.

For example, blue neon windscreen jets are illegal.

The cloudy area as I see it is cars with modern HID/Xenon lights can appear blue at times (we've all seen the lights on the motorways and thought, 'is that a police car?', my car has these lights too!) so are these illegal under the colouring of forward facing lights law?

Hope this helps. (not wanting to offend but neons look silly IMHO ;):D)

Maybe some of this info is in the highway code or the MOT website?

[pugerme]

i figured that if out of all the standard clusters amber is the only one on all sides of the car then orange neons shold be ok however all others are not?

[clubcalibra.com]

I want some blue flashing/spinning lights ontop of my car, do you think they're legal? :D

[Danbo]

I want some blue flashing/spinning lights ontop of my car, do you think they're legal? :D

They are on mine! :P

[Freak]

You can have any color on the car - apart from red and blue- as long as it is static (not flashing) and you can only see the light-not the light source.

In otherwords, in this case-you must only be able to see the light from the neons and not the tubes themselves.
I had a link somewhere tio this but lost it....doh....

[LB]

You can only have a red light visible to the rear (expect white for the purpose of reversing) - (indicators not included) If the neons are visible from the rear then you could get stopped and get a fixed penalty.
Filament lights fitted to a vehicle have to be E-marked, but I don't think neons are filament lights. You can have other optional coloured lights on vehicle as long as they aren't osciliating (sp?) but you are getting are onto very dodgy ground if they are blue coloured even if they don't oscilate.

All that said there is still a good chance that you will get stopped if you drive round with them on.

[Anonymous]

You can only have a red light visible to the rear (expect white for the purpose of reversing) - (indicators not included) If the neons are visible from the rear then you could get stopped and get a fixed penalty.
Filament lights fitted to a vehicle have to be E-marked, but I don't think neons are filament lights. You can have other optional coloured lights on vehicle as long as they aren't osciliating (sp?) but you are getting are onto very dodgy ground if they are blue coloured even if they don't oscilate.

All that said there is still a good chance that you will get stopped if you drive round with them on.

do explaing why please that you still stand a good chance of get pulled if there are within the law and how you have resonable grounds for a toad side stop ?

[Burratha]

....how you have resonable grounds for a toad side stop ?

What's one of those then?

[Mice_Elf]

It's where you illegally carry toads in your pocket.

;)

[Anonymous]

It's where you illegally carry toads in your pocket.

;)

still avoided the answer did you not ?

by the way incase you didient notice the t next to the r on all keyboards

We do not ill type with one finger as some do.

[Mice_Elf]

I noticed...I can type, thanks. :D Look, all my words are spelt correctly! :D :P

I avoided the question, as you put it, because I am not police.

[Anonymous]

I noticed...I can type, thanks. :D Look, all my words are spelt correctly! :D :P

I avoided the question, as you put it, because I am not police.

just like sucking up to them i guess then

[Mice_Elf]

LOL...Your poor deluded person, you...

Maybe I like being here for the advice and friendly banter - ever think of that? :D

[VinnyP!]

OK looks like you are spoiling for a fight with someone don't know why. I don't think you'll find one on here. However if you really want an answer I'll try, I'll assume you meant a road side check.

There is a thing called a road check under PACE which is more like a road block, this is following serious crimes I don't think you were referring to this.

A constable in uniform doesn't need any grounds to stop any car, failing to stop is an offence for which a power of arrest exists. He can also demand the drivers details failure to supply them is also an offence. The constable can require them to produce their documents there and then, failing to do so is you guessed it an offence, however no action is taken if they are produced within 7 days at a nominated police station.

If the constable is also authorised by his chief officer as a vehicle examiner they can examine the vehicle for any faults, who is authorised varies from force to force.

None of the above require any grounds reasonable or otherwise. This may seem harsh to some, I put up with it like everyone else because it's the law and driving a car is not a right it's a privilege licensed by the Govt.

Just for completeness, there are many other occasions when a Police officer can stop cars and sometimes search them that are outside the scope of this post.

Regards

Vince :)

[llort]

Whats stoping them showing you there documents and just walking off on foot.

[Teknobod]

All the neons I have seen for sale state :-
"For show use only"

[Turbo_Steve]

I feel ( I dunno if Mr.Calibra would agree with me) that neons are a good way of drawing attention to your car.

As previously stated a police officer can stop your car for any reason he feels valid.

So drawing attention to the car is liable to get you stopped, even if it is "just out of interest". I have been stopped just to ask what my car is!
I was polite, the officers in question were polite, and they asked me to "go easy on the accelerator in future" but were more interested in the car than the fact that I was doing 60 in a 50 at 3:00am.

They were bored, interested and I got their attention. Not many people are rushing to be anywhere at 3:00am.

[dynamite]

Hey all, I'm new to these boards and was interested in this myself as I'm thinking of fitting a green underbody kit to my hyundai coupe.

The site neoquip.com which sells neons has this under their legal section

Legally, the whole issue of using neon in and on cars is covered in the UK by 1989 Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations. These date from a time before neon was in use, and the strictest answer is that until there's a court case there will be no definitive legal position. We want our customers to make informed choices, so we spent some time consulting with the Department of Transport. And what they said, which applies within the UK only, boils down to this:

*according to Regulation 11 of the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations only red light may be shown from the rear of a vehicle. There are a very few exceptions to this, including amber from indicators.
*red light must never be shown at the front of a vehicle
*blue should be avoided, since it is strongly associated with emergency vehicles.
*the law covers lamps at the front and sides, and not light coming from the underside of vehicles. Neon systems aren't lamps, but they do create light that's easily seen. The wisest course is to abide by the colour regulations outlined: red at the rear, amber at the side, and white in front.
*interior lighting is not generally subject to the same regulations, but the use of neon could alter that since it's clearly intended to be seen from outside the vehicle.

Would be nice though if we could get a definate answer to this "legal grey area" that plagues us who want these systems

[clubcalibra.com]

Totally agree, frankly I wish the police force would find something more useful to do with their time!!

...pulling us over for the underneaths of our cars glowing - very petty when you consider there's people being robbed, burgled, beaten up, murdered etc - and instead they'd rather spend around 20 minutes checking our cars, and issuing producers that rarely lead to any kind of prosecution, or useful outcome for the 'force' etc...!!

I know people will most likely respond with 'why fit them in the first place', its individual taste - same as the Scooby, I wouldn't buy one...I think they're ugly, but we're all entitled to our own opinion. Whether they look good or not, we should be able to express our individualism.

GRRRRR!!

[Medders]

Totally agree, frankly I wish the police force would find something more useful to do with their time!!

...pulling us over for the underneaths of our cars glowing - very petty when you consider there's people being robbed, burgled, beaten up, murdered etc - and instead they'd rather spend around 20 minutes checking our cars, and issuing producers that rarely lead to any kind of prosecution, or useful outcome for the 'force' etc...!!

I know people will most likely respond with 'why fit them in the first place', its individual taste - same as the Scooby, I wouldn't buy one...I think they're ugly, but we're all entitled to our own opinion. Whether they look good or not, we should be able to express our individualism.

GRRRRR!!

Depends where you are at the time mate but I think you'll find that there isn't someone being beaten up or robbed or murdered 24/7 (maybe in the met ;) ) Certainly not where I work.

More people are killed on the roads each year than are murdered so policing the roads is definately a worthwhile thing.

If I'm patrolling and I see a car displaying a red light to the front (and I'm not saying you are) I WILL stop it. It's dangerous. The driver will get a ticket (just for example)

If an officer sees someone breaking the law, they will do something about it. If I see someone getting beaten up I will similarly stop and sort it.

This "haven't you got anything better to do" mentality is rubbish. I'm not "petty" by any means and I'll probably give you the benefit most days, but if you commit an offence and flaunt it expect a tug :)
Thats what we do.

With regard to getting a producer, thats how we check if you've got a licence / insurance. Many many people don't have one or the other or both. Would you rather we ignored people with no insurance / licence?

Not saying you do any of the above clubcalibra, or that you've commited an offence, just explaining how it works from our side)

cheers

Paul

[Jack Clark]

If the real Feds don't tug you then the fashion police should. :D

[clubcalibra.com]

Thanks for your constructive reply Medders...fair points, guess its hard for us to understand until you are a cop yourself ;o)

...Jack Clark, I expected a response such as yours from somebody...

[Black Rat]

The fitting of water jets on bonnet of cars which emit a blue light to the front of the vehicle. ( the light is constant and does not flash)

The same could be said for the blue lights fitted to the tyre vales on some vehicles.

If the lamp moves - as it would if fitted on a wheel then an offence under Reg 12 Lighting Regs 1989 (moveable lamps) would appear to be fulfilled.

'No person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road any vehicle to which, or to any load or equipment of which, there is fitted a lamp, reflector or marking which is capable of being moved by swivelling, deflecting or otherwise while the vehicle is in motion.

Exceptions listed include retro reflectors fitted to pedal cycle pedals, and wheels and tyres of pedal cycles, invalid carriages and solo motorcycles.

If a lamp flashes then it would fall foul of regulation 13 - Lamps to show a steady light

'No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which automatically emits a flashing
light.'

Exceptions include direction indicators, a headlamp fitted to an emergency vehicle; a warning beacon or special warning lamp

Are all blue lights warning beacons or special warning lamps as these are restricted to fitting and use on emergency vehicles by regulation 16?

'No vehicle, other than an emergency vehicle, shall be fitted with :-
(a) a blue warning beacon or special warning lamp, or
(b) a device which resembles a blue warning beacon or a special warning lamp, whether the same is in working order or not.'

Regulation 3

‘Special warning lamp’
A lamp, fitted to the front or rear of a vehicle, capable of emitting a blue flashing light and not any other kind of light.

‘Warning beacon’
A lamp that is capable of emitting a flashing or rotating beam of light throughout 360 degrees in the horizontal plane.

Thus if a blue light does not flash it does not fulfill the above definitions and as long as it does not resemble such a lamp then it would not fall foul of reg 16.

Can they be considered as optional position lamps? - no they do not fall even close to the definition of one.

To summarise - if they do not move, do not flash and do not resemble (other than perhaps in colour but certainly not in size) a special warning lamp or blue warning beacon and do not display to the rear I cannot see how such lamps can fall foul of this legislation.

[clubcalibra.com]

Thanks for your detailed reply, so as a Traffic Officier are you stating that you do not have a problem with Blue Underbody Neons? lets face it, they cannot be mistaken for a Police car's warning lights, because they're under the car!!

I just asked "Can I drive with blue neons on..." whilst at my local police station (Avon and Somerset), the officer replied "...well they're not illegal are they!..."

[Black Rat]

Thanks for your detailed reply, so as a Traffic Officier are you stating that you do not have a problem with Blue Underbody Neons? lets face it, they cannot be mistaken for a Police car's warning lights, because they're under the car!!

I just asked "Can I drive with blue neons on..." whilst at my local police station (Avon and Somerset), the officer replied "...well they're not illegal are they!..."

There is nothing in the legislation that I can see that say's you are not allowed to have them on, while stationary, moving or otherwise mate.

It's an area that will no doubt change in due course but not at present.

[clubcalibra.com]

Cool, so in reality, an officer has no legal groundings to pull over a car for having Neons on? And what is the worst (if at all applicable) penalty that could be issued?

[Black Rat]

Cool, so in reality, an officer has no legal groundings to pull over a car for having Neons on? And what is the worst (if at all applicable) penalty that could be issued?

Well in reality you (a driver) simply driving a car is all the groundings the officer needs to pull you over (Sec 163 Road Traffic Act), the neons are just a side track issue, for which he / she would no doubt extract the p***.... Only joking.... :D

However the worst penalty would probably be, being labelled as the guy who owns the American Ice Cream Parlour on wheels !!!! :D :D :)

I've had people turn them off when they go past me, I just smile to myself to be honest !

[clubcalibra.com]

Cool, thanks for your reply, they're for shows only anywayz, just sometimes nice to give'em a flash on the road ;o) make sure they still work, hehe