Question on car insurance settlement values

[Turboderv]

Well, we will have to agree to differ on that one then LOL !


So far as I am concerned, I have insurance A) because it is a legal requirement and B) to protect my investment like-for-like

If your car is beyond economical repair i'm of the opinion that your insurance cover should but you in a position to be able to replace the car with same or equivalent vehicle, in this case it is physically impossible for my brother to purchase another GTI for 6.5 K in the same age and condition either retail or private - they are just not available for the money. We have spent 7 weeks trying to find one, the one he has got now he did a 300 mile return journey to collect from s****horpe ! and he has had to px his wifes car too so they have lost that conveinence. Surely having insurance shouldn't leave you worse off after a claim ?

Maybe you can answer a question for me to help me understand:

When anyone obtains an insurance quote they are asked the cars value, does this have any reflection on the insurance premium ? even though the insurance company have the foresight that they do not intend to cover the vehicle for anything like the value you tell them. Why don't they just refer to the Glasses guide at that moment in time when calculating the premium.

You cannot purchase any vehicle for the price listed in the Glasses guides, simple as ! ! as an example, my last car was listed in Glasses as being worth £3,400 K. I got £5,700 for when I px'ed it at a dealer who I assume sold it with their profit and costs added to that. Even if I had sold it privately at a keen price it would have been at least 2k more than the Glasses price.

I'm not trying to be a pain here, honestly, i'm just trying to get it straight in my mind how it works, especially now that I have seen the trouble my bro has had, it has been an eye opener !!!

[russ]

I have split this thread as it was veering away from answering the original posters questions.

No mods to Turbodevs post

[Kris]

Some compaies do link their quote system in with the DVLA & glasses guide so that when you give them your reg when you ring for a quote they know exactly what the car is & can get a rough idea of the value at the same time. Other companies just put the value down as "market value". But even if they did by the time you made a claim 6 or 8 months later the estiomated value would be wrong then as well.

I understand how you feel & yes some cars may get more than the guide value due to supply demand etc at the time you are looking, in the same way other cars dont go for anything like guide value & you would end up getting more than a replacement cost.

Insurers are generally reluctant to accept dealer valuations as the dealer has a vested interest in pleasing you...after all you'll soon have a nice insurance settlement to go shopping with & where better to spend it than with the nice man who helped you win against the nasty insurance company. :D


Trust me when I say insurers arent looking to rip people off.

Rip off = unhappy customers = lots of complaints = lots of hassel = more cost in the long run & lost customers = no insurance company

[russ]

Kris is right, we don`t go out of our way to annoy customers. However we are all human and no one is perfect, they may have got it wrong. If he didn`t agree with the value he could have always "appealed" and asked them to re-consider.

Just on a side thought, a while ago when it used to be the insurance ombudsman and not the Financial Services Ombdusman they ruled on a case. This was where somone complained that he didn`t have access to Glasses books and therefore how could he check that the value was correct. His value was from Parkers price guide. The Ombudsman ruled in his favour saying that the Glasses guide " wasn`t availiable to the common man" and that the Parkers price stood.

As far as i am aware most engineers look at all sorts of ways of valuing a car, if i can`t find my glasses i often use parkers or autotrader online. Must be honest though recently glasses has come out at a lesser value on a lot of cars than either of those.

At the end of the day of parkers gives the same price as glasses and they are availiable on autotrader for that value then maybe the price is fair.

As Kris says we don`t give low quotes these days, that practice went out just after i joined insurance in 1994. Somehow it still survives today though :(

[Turboderv]

Thanks for explaining that Kris, I can see where they are coming from. I wasn't trying to imply ins co's are ripping people off I was just interested in hearing how they work out values :) I still think though that there shouldn't be such a gap between what the insurance offer and what it costs to replace the car "like for like",

I had Gap cover on my last car but don't have it on my current one, didn't think it was worth the 30 quid a month !

My bro's claim was sorted out very quickly his finance was settled three weeks after the accident which I think is quite quick, they are still arguing over blame for the actual accident which I imagine could take a while !!!

Some of the Golf's are like hens teeth to get hold of especially in good, original condition. He managed to find a Y plate 1.8T which is immaculate. It's the nearest to replacing the Golf he had but he has been left well out of pocket, which seems to be unfair.

Quote:
"Insurers are generally reluctant to accept dealer valuations as the dealer has a vested interest in pleasing you...after all you'll soon have a nice insurance settlement to go shopping with & where better to spend it than with the nice man who helped you win against the nasty insurance company. http://www.5ive-o.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"

He didn't get any dealer valuations, we printed out some details of simlar cars from VW dealers, the dealer wont beaware that we visited the web site so have no interest in pleasing us at all. The insurance settlement was nothing like nice, it would only purchase a T reg 1.6 very basic model and wouldn't go anywhere near a W reg 2.0 GTI, not even with private sales. His car was bought from a VW dealer and the value he told the ins co when he got his quote reflected this. The value over the few months of his policy has hardly changed if at all.

So when my renewal arrives in April I should expect a lower premium as my car is worth less than last April i.e. - same risk but cheaper car to replace :rolleyes:

I'm in the wrong business !! LOL !

Thanks

Si

[Trax]

Just to add my bit. having worked in claims, the insured value doesnt affect a T.Loss payout. The engineers pay out what they think the car was worth at the time of the accident, using glasses or parkers. At D/Line(And associated Companies). if the policyholder disputed the value, they were told to get evidence from adverts (i.e. autotrader) for cars of same spec age at higher prices, and these were usually met.
They wont accept dealer prices as these usually include extra service, i.e warrenties, which you dont pay to be insured for.

[fulcrum]

I'am just setting a claim now where Ive been waiting 15 months for the case/payment to be decided. Iam trying to find out what the glass's price would have been for my car 15 months ago but Iam not sure if this is possible or not.

Either way I'll feel cheated because the car was undervalued, thats why it was a bargain to buy in the first place!

[russ]

I may have misread what you are asking but do you mean that you bought the car at a bargain price and that you are upset that the insurers won`t pay out for more than you paid for it ?

What are the details of the car?, i need what you paid for it, the exact make and model, whether it had MOT at the time and what the mileage was at the time of the claim.

We store glasses guides for quite a while and i may be able to get a value for you.

Out of interest what are you thinking it`s worth ? 15 months for a case to be heard is a very long time. We usually settle within 4 weeks. Have you not even received an interim payment ?

[fulcrum]

Sorry I didnt reply sooner, I forgot to subscribe to the thread and only just checked back here.

As it is, the claim is at the same point. I've sent off evidence of my cars worth almost 16 months ago now, at the time of the accident. I used an old copy of the Parkers guide to give the 9 year old guide price for a car in A1 condition, reasonable I think because the car was below average miles and had just had a few expensive parts replaced at its MOT.
However the parkers guide was not a current edition or even current at the time of the accident, I just used it as a basis for my estimate because it was the only guide I had for a 9 year old price on my car. Thats why I wanted to track down the an old copy of Glasses guide.

The engineer who inspected my vehicle gave an estimate half of my figure.
I'am also claiming for 10% interest on the value since I have had no interim payment, courtsey car or fee for storage of the wreck. I brought a replacement car with my credit card.

The reason it took 15 months was the other driver denied responcibility then refused to reply to enquiries, Iam also 3rd party only with my own company.

I've pm'd you the exact details, Russ. If you could give any figures you might have, it would help I think.

thanks for listening :)

[Kris]

Hi Fulcrum

I dont have the details of what the car was but the insurance comapny would be looking at the value of the car at the time it was damaged (not necessarily the replacement value) so thats probaly why they didnt rely on your prices from Parkers which were out of date

The other thing is that a car without a valid MOT certificate is essentially worth little over a scrap or part price as it isn't roaworthy. You mentioned that you felt the car was worth more as some expensive parts had been replaced to get it through the MOT but if those parts hadnt been replaced then the car would be unroadworthy and again have little value.

The other thing that people get caught out by is modifications or aftermarket extras on the car. Very few modifications will actually increase the value of a car. Some may make the car easier to sell on (to the right buyer) & a lot can even devalue the car as hare taking it from its standard spec.

A good example of this is car stereos. They cost several hundred to buy but secondhand they are virtually no value (just try a quick search on ebay).

Russ should be back from Holidy inthe next week & will get ack to you then or if you want to send the details to me I'll try & see what I can find out

[cochapman]

I don't know with whom you're insured and whether it has gone past the "being reasonable" stage, but when my old Volvo 240 got written off as "uneconomical to repair", Frizzells offed (IIRC) about £250 less my £150 excess. Obviously, I was a bit disappointed becasue like you I knew I couldn't get one in the same (good) condition for the payout. I just did a seach on the AutoTrader web site and sent them in details of eight or ten different Volvos (of the same spec as mine) priced from £500 - £1k. They then upped the pay out to £500, which I could live with as I had already got a replacement by then.

[russ]

Aye i have got your pm, i`ll look it up when i get back to work next week :)

[Kris]

Couldnt find a Jan 04 Glasses guide in our office....engineers must be propping up their desks with em again :D

[fulcrum]

Just wondering if any luck had been had with the old copy of Glasses ? I emailed a few companies and Cap was the only one to get back to me with a quote of 41 pounds for a paper version of their records from that time.
They also said it was for trade only, I dont know if that means its restricted but I'd want the 3rd party insurers to pay for it anyway under uninsurred losses.

[russ]

Hi, Sorry i`m struggling to find one. We had an office move about 4 months ago and they seem to have found their way into a bin :(

I only have some from late last year and that isn`t going to be much use

[russ]

Ok, found one in the back of an old filing cabinet. The date of the guide is Feb 2003 so not sure how much use this will actually be. This is based on average mileage and the details you pm`d me.

Retail figure £1875 Trade £675

Apart from that the guides i have are of no use. Hope it helps

[fulcrum]

Great thanks, its only a rough guide but it all helps. Iam surprised the trade figure is so much lower but then Ive never read a glasses guide so I suspect thats for dealer to dealer sales which is going to be alot lower then a part ex figure.
I wont bother Cap for the moment, I phoned the insurers and they havent anything on record a month after the car was inspected so they said they would chase things up for me, no firm figures yet from them.

[Kris]

In glasses guide, trade price is the value the dealer could expect to buy the car in at & retail is the price that is asked for on the forecourt

[stuart30]

Well looks like ive been lucky...the one and only serious accident ive had i made money on,very very gently nudged the car in front (stopped 3/4 way over the white line at roundabout) so we both pulled off the R/B to check damage,after a quick look and an apoligy i get back in my trusty sierra (owned for less than a week) and BANG get rear ended at considerable speed by a guy i used to work with,both sierra"s are in bad way (my hatchback was split in two at rear and his sierra lost most of front end).

So from me tapping someone in the rear i ended up being paid £700 after paying excess...not bad as the car only cost just over £200...:banana:

[fulcrum]

Sounds like you got the car as a bargain in the first place then, 200 doesnt buy much at all normally. My first car was only £240 and I ran that for 18 months though it cost a bit to repair all the time :/
Luckiest bit there was the accident itself, sounds like it could have been very nasty if you were on foot and all

[stuart30]

Sounds like you got the car as a bargain in the first place then, 200 doesnt buy much at all normally. My first car was only £240 and I ran that for 18 months though it cost a bit to repair all the time :/
Luckiest bit there was the accident itself, sounds like it could have been very nasty if you were on foot and all

Yeah car was a steal think it was £220 or there abouts (guy near wisbeach sells them on side of the road) really clean 1800 cvh hatch sierra...and yeah the accident could have been fatal...it was only a minute or two before that me and the guy i bumped where standing in between the front of my car and the rear of his....Forgot to say that the speed/force of the impact shunted me into the guy in fronts car.

And to top it all off,as i said the guy who ran into me i used to work with,first thing he said when he got out was ""blimey hello stu fancy bumping into you"" I kid you not...:eek: :)

[The Yellow Duracell Bunny]

I think that this practice still happens a lot but its not solely to base on the insurance company! im not going to say much but a mate was knocked off his bike and although he wasnt badly injured the bike was shmushed at the front and as Wazza will tell you, plastics are expensive! Anyway it came to a settlement about 4 or 5 week later, great he though but then realised the cheque for his lil Aprilia was only half of what he was hoping to get when he sold it and that was in a planned 6 months?! He rang them and they kept telling him that it was their final offer and he had to accept it, he tore the cheque up and told them that as a customer he wasnt happy and they said he had to prove the worth of the bike. Back and forth, advert after advert and about 4 letters and 12 phone calls and another 8 weeks he had a cheque which was only £100 short of what he wanted!!! Result I suppose but he still had no bike for nearly 12 weeks and still came out £100 plus postage and phone costs down! Moral is going to be that you just gotta keep trying!!

On another note, was walking around my local dealership and came accross a damaged Blackbird, ok the front fairing was mashed but only the top half, one indicator and a few nuts or bolts. The guy pricing it had come to a value of £4000 for the damages!!!!!! He was putting down every single scratch/dent/mark and insisting that it had to be replaced with new... Surely in this day and age of high premiums the industry should be looking to repair instead of replace?? One panel had a 5mm long scuff, barely that and it would have been £50 to just spray in, he came to £450 for a panel, complete from Honda!!!
That is just CRIMINAL!!! I went back 4 weeks later and the bike had been sold for scrap, I went to the local scrappy and she was there, all the bits to put her straight and only about £800 plus labour?!!?

Yellow