Scumwalks free from court after admitting 234 car crimes

[Scoob99]

And was out on licence from his last prison sentance, and my son happened to end up being a victim, He caused over £8,000 worth of damge to his van, The Judge feels he should be a good father to hias unborn child, the no good herion scum bag addict:rolleyes: I just wanna rip hids fcuking head off:mad:
Cheers
Colin

[wazza]

Some judges do not live in the real world

[XDC]

:rolleyes:

Sounds to me like the kid will be better off without him.

It reminds me of a judge who was pathetically lenient with burglars - until they broke into his country pad and took a giant dump on his tapestry covered four poster bed.

Thereafter he was known as 'The Domino Judge' - he only handed out fives and threes.:D

[Scoob99]

The crazy thing is If I lay a finger on him, I would probably go down, It's the police I feel soory the 2 guys working on this case have been after this scum bag for ages, and then the judge lets him walk free, Is their anyone we can complain too??
Cheers
Colin

[XDC]

The crazy thing is If I lay a finger on him, I would probably go down, It's the police I feel soory the 2 guys working on this case have been after this scum bag for ages, and then the judge lets him walk free, Is their anyone we can complain too??
Cheers
Colin

You can complain to The Lord Chancellor about the personal behaviour of a judge but not about his judgements. They're pretty well untouchable unless they start indecently exposing themselves in the street or some other odd behaviour. :D

CPS could appeal against the sentence in this case, the ultimate authority finally being the House Of Lords, but it's unlikely that they will, as this decision will probably be supported by the appeal courts unless there's a very good reason for overturning it.

To be fair, we don't always know the full circumstances and Social Enquiry Reports which have impacted on the judge's decision, but on the face of it, it does seem a ludicrous sentence for someone who's engaged in an orgy of crime and no doubt will again.

[Scoob99]

He got a character witness letter from the govnor of Bedford Prison for his *so called* good behavoir inside.
Cheers
Colin

[wazza]

I am going straight round to see the Govenor of bedford prison and get his car number, its only a 15 minute walk for me. I would drive round but then he would get my number!

[Scoob99]

Go get the Git Wazza:thumb:

[Smiffyz]

I think it's time we had younger judges, who understand todays society.

[Nathan L]

Colin as per my SN post. ;)

[oldcodger]

I can’t comment on this case, but I can say a bit about one that I dealt with not so long ago.

Among our regulars was a man who loves motorbikes. Unfortuneately, because he was a heroin addict he had no money and so stole other peoples bikes. As a result he has been in and out of jail for quite a few years.
In common with many addicts he had no desire to change his way of life so a Drug Treatment and Testing Order would have been a complete waste of time.
When arrested he would refuse to co-operate with regard to other offences and would do his jail time, come out and start again.

Then, one day, he came to court to face about 60 charges. He had gone (voluntarily) to the police and confessed to as many offences as he could remember. He then admitted a lot of others that the police put to him.

For some reason (and even he didn’t know why) he had decided to come off the heroin. He had contacted the local drugs help people and had been clean for about 4 months at time of court appearance. He had a part time job lined up with a motorbike project for problem teenagers.

With his record and the large number of offences he was guilty of, he should have had a long jail sentence. We took the view that putting him back inside would undo all the effort he had put in to getting himself clean and deprive the bike project of a valuable member of staff.

We gave him a combination order. That’s part rehabilitation (to help him stay off the drugs) and part unpaid work (in his case on the motorbike project). This was heavily criticised in the local press.

If he stays off the drugs and continues to contribute to society we will have been proved right.:D
If he goes back to drugs and crime we will have been proved wrong. :oops:

Time will tell.

[Shobhna]

Still no consolation to the person caught in the cross fire (so to speak)

I often think that each crime should stand on its own merit and be punished accordingly. What is to stop this chap re-offending. It is almost as though this society is being asked to trust a career criminal (or so he sounds) and a drug-taker at that.
Should there be no re-compense for the person who suffered £8000 worth of damage. I wonder if he would get any monetary support to totally pay his costs?

[oldcodger]

When someone gets a custodial sentence there would normally be no order to pay compensation. Thats because they will not be paid when inside.

The rare exception to that would be where the defendant has a lot of money and so in spite of being inside (and not earning) they would still have the means to pay.

In the case I mentioned, the man was a career criminal. His heroin and crack habit (costing him about £150 a day!!!!) prevented him thinking clearly, actually it prevented him thinking at all. He would steal a bike, ride it for a bit then sell it.
He never had the means to pay compensation. We knew that locking him up would not stop him offending when he got out. But it did cut the crime figures while he was inside and, hopefully, was a deterrent to others. I suspect it made the victims feel a bit better too. I know the victims would have liked to be compensated - and they deserve to be compensated- but this man lived in a squat, owned next to nothing and spent every penny on heroin, crack and special brew. There was nothing that could be used to fund compensation.

Our decision not to jail him was taken because we could see an end to his offending. Which is of benefit to everybody. This guy was stealing 2 or 3 bikes a week to feed his habit, he had no way of compensating his victims, the tax payer was funding his jail time - all this will stop IF he really has learned his lesson.

If he does reoffend the next bench will see that he was given a chance and blew it. They will not make the same mistake again.

[Scoob99]

But people like my son, will still suffer when his insurance is due, I say shoot the scum bag.

[Eunos]

13 days to go

[oldcodger]

I do understand that victims of crime often lose financially. We lost a mower, strimmer and 3 mountain bikes when our garden shed was broken into.
But you can't get money from people who are broke.

[jamesedga]

Before he came clean i would of said lock him up in isloation for a year to get the drugs out of him, but he has cleaned up and come off the heroin. As oldcodger has said locking him up would prob push him towards drugs again. At least he is attempting to make a better life for himself and his community now.

[hydracobra]

you may not be able to get money from the sc*mbags if their broke, but how about taking it out of their hides and getting some satisfaction, that might make them think twice next time!! and yes i know its the wrong thing to do but when u see some cases the decisions made beggars belief, i know from personal experiance from being on the recieving end of a theft, but thats in the past

[DEEDEE]

Not worth wasting any time on this guy, it costs us the good guys money, it would be a waste trying to treat him, lets get tough and show scum what they deserve, Birching would be a start.

[AquilaEagle]

And was out on licence from his last prison sentance, and my son happened to end up being a victim, He caused over £8,000 worth of damge to his van, The Judge feels he should be a good father to hias unborn child, the no good herion scum bag addict:rolleyes: I just wanna rip hids fcuking head off:mad:
Cheers
Colin
Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about - is there a specific case you are referring to?

[AquilaEagle]

He got a character witness letter from the govnor of Bedford Prison for his *so called* good behavoir inside.
Cheers
ColinYou have evidence to prove otherwise?

[AquilaEagle]

But people like my son, will still suffer when his insurance is due, I say shoot the scum bag.The trouble is colin, you are acting emotionally, not rationally, which is what judges have to do. (and rightly so) step back and breathe deeply :)

[XDC]

You have evidence to prove otherwise?

You mean apart from the £8000 worth of damage he caused whilst he was out on licence as a result of his exemplary behaviour whilst banged up? ;)

[AquilaEagle]

His character statement was for his behaviour INSIDE, it said, not outside :)

[XDC]

His character statement was for his behaviour INSIDE, it said, not outside :)

Great - so he's a model citizen as long .......as he's banged up!

Forgive me being a tad cynical Budgie, but with the massive remissions now available to prisoners, they've every incentive to behave and cause no problems whilst inside.

[AquilaEagle]

That's a problem :( We're to damn soft on criminals, all that socialist pants about rehabilitation, and putting them back into the community bang the feckers up and leave them banged up!! We shouldn't need a probation service :)

[Scoob99]

AquilaEagle,
So your saying let him free without any punishment?? These scum bags need to be taught a lesson my son works really hard for his money and enjoys his cars, so why should this scum bag walk along and think he can take and destroy what he likes, So I say string the bastards up or cut their hands off, I may not be thinking rationally about ripping his head off but I would like to cause the pain and anger they have put my family through over the last few months, the should be taken off the streets not put back out there where they can cause more harm and damage to innocent hard working people.

[oldcodger]

If you are not happy with the present sentencing arrangements (and I do understand why you aren't) you will hate the new ones.

Its not clear yet exactly which parts of the new Criminal Justice Act will be put into use but there is a real emphasis on keeping people out of jail.

Weekend only jails are a real possibilty.

That has to be balanced against some changes eg defendants past history being available to the court, which should increase the percentage of convictions.

[AquilaEagle]

AquilaEagle,
So your saying let him free without any punishment??

Where did I say that?

[hydracobra]

Ok Eagle put urself in Scoob99's position, what would u do? I doubt u would be as calm if ur on the recieving end, i know i wouldnt be !! The courts have forgotten about the victims of the crime, its all **** about face, needs to be changed and quick in my opinion

[oldcodger]

The courts have not forgotten about the victims. We just apply the law as it is set out by parliament.

[Scoob99]

Aquila,
Your telling me to stand back and take a deep breathe, to damm right I'm emotional over this, my son works damm hard for his money, and for what some low life scum bag to damage his property, so he can get his next fix, £4000 worth of hi-fi was taken and they sold it for £50, If I ever see this scum bag I will rip his fcucking head off, anyhows it makes me sick to think that 2 decent coppers worked their balls off to get a result, and for this prick of a judge to let them walk free.

[AquilaEagle]

Ok Eagle put urself in Scoob99's position, what would u do? I doubt u would be as calm if ur on the recieving end, i know i wouldnt be !! The courts have forgotten about the victims of the crime, its all **** about face, needs to be changed and quick in my opinion
I think it depends how rational a person one is. I appreciate what Scoob has been through, and I sympathise.
:)

[AquilaEagle]

Aquila,
Your telling me to stand back and take a deep breathe, to damm right I'm emotional over this, my son works damm hard for his money, and for what some low life scum bag to damage his property, so he can get his next fix, £4000 worth of hi-fi was taken and they sold it for £50, If I ever see this scum bag I will rip his fcucking head off, anyhows it makes me sick to think that 2 decent coppers worked their balls off to get a result, and for this prick of a judge to let them walk free.
You've not answered my question, clearly there is no answer, as you were just mis-interpreting what I said.

There is no need for the language you use in your post, and also you'll find that you are breaking the law if you rip his head off.

Was your son's equipment insured?

[Scoob99]

We were allowed to claim on our house insurance for some of the stuff but not all, you say I'm breaking the law if I rip his head off, but if the courts in this country dealt with scum like this properly I would have no need to feel the way I do, plus as I said before 2 decent coppers worked very hard to get a result only to be kicked in the balls by the judge who let them walk free, I mean come on the guy was out on licence for christs sake, and when found he was in a stolen car, all I will say is that any decent hard working copper may has well turn it in cos when it goes to court the system not only lets the Police down but lets the public down too.

[offdutyPC]

Remember the two "people" that stole a judges car on my patch, chased and caught. They went inside surprisingly.

[Scoob99]

Need I say anymore, one law for them and one for decent hard working people.

[ctrlaltdelboy]

it seems to me that crims or would be crims will always weigh up the rewards to be had from their crimes against the repercussions of being caught - not necessarily always on a conscious level though.

IMO it's the liberal attitude to criminals and the focus on rehabilitation plus the need to not further burden the already overcrowded jails with more costly inmates, that have resulted in the ridiculous amount of crime that we have in this country today.

my father who spent 32 years in the prison service, writing several white papers and received the Imperial Service Order during his service, was always a great advocate of rehabilitation and specialised in working with young offenders in this respect. Sadly I have never been able to share his views on this, being instead a great fan of deterrent as the key weapon against crime.

take a look at Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries where theft will cost you (admittedly not for a 1st offence) a hand etc, people in this country usually react with 'that's barbaric' etc, but the point is that it almost never happens as it does not need to - the threat of it is sufficient deterrent that the crimes simply do not get committed.

anyone who has been to these countries will tell you how astonishingly trusting people seem to be with no security gates or fences around the marinas and expensive cars left unlocked etc - it certainly appears to be a system which works a bit better than our own. and I'm not saying it's perfect, and there have been wrongful accusations with no ability to undo the punishment, but there is no solution which is 100% perfect we all have to recognise that and simply decide on what compromise we wish to take in our chosen system.

personally I think the price we are paying right now for the protection of EVERYONE's human rights is far too high - most folks here I expect will agree that some folks simply do not deserve such rights as a result of their own choices and actions.

[Mavrik]

I do understand that victims of crime often lose financially. We lost a mower, strimmer and 3 mountain bikes when our garden shed was broken into.
But you can't get money from people who are broke.

Actually, there is a good way, but it would take big changes in the law, and the do gooders will never let that happen

how ?

simple

Force them to sell body organs, couple hundred quid for a kidney, few hundred for an eye etc etc

Not only do the victims get compensation, but they have a reminding punishment, AND some other person also benefits

Also, when all organs worth having are sold, they aint gonna be able to keep offending

Works for me

:D:D:D:D

[wazza]

ooooh errrrrr Something from the past brought back to life again:-|

[Meridian]

ooooh errrrrr Something from the past brought back to life again:-|


http://www.zen16541.zen.co.uk/p2_threadresurrect.jpg


M

[Dr M]

Weekend jails have been operating in Norway for many years, and are used for non violent, mainly motoring offences. If you ever travel to the Scandanavian countries, you will notice tall thin poles with reflective tape on the top placed evenly along the sides of the road. These are aiming marks for snow ploughs in the winter months. The weekend prisoners put these out during their bang up time.

It might work in this country if weekend non violent types were employed to do some thing useful. But then it might breach their human rights.

[chi_chee]

the justice system will be hailed a success if the punishment fits the crime and the offender does not re-offend.

but like someone has mentioned, it will take something drastic to change for that to happen!

[18wheeler]

not all cases,but most,once a junkie,always a junkie! if there out stealing,mugging etc,its just too feed their habit,so surely if they are that keen on crack,heroin,etc,when they get caught,perhaps we should give them what they want,one very,very,lethal dose of their favorite shit,there happy,and so would society be. problem solved!

[Mudflap]

When was the last time you heard of someone receiving 'Capital Punishment' and then re-offending. Eliminate the scum. I rest my case.

[ctrlaltdelboy]

the real scum are the dealers who get the junkies onto the stuff in the first place and then once addicted keep them theiving/fencing our property in order to feed their habit and their dealers lifestyles through a combination of offered credit followed by ruthless collection through fear.

in many cases the hapless wretches who find themselves the puppets of those controlling their actions are as much victims as those of us whose property they steal through the fear and addiction they find themselves the subject of.

so I agree, hanging is too good for them, but lets not lose sight of who 'them' really are.

[stuart30]

AquilaEagle,
So your saying let him free without any punishment?? These scum bags need to be taught a lesson my son works really hard for his money and enjoys his cars, so why should this scum bag walk along and think he can take and destroy what he likes, So I say string the bastards up or cut their hands off, I may not be thinking rationally about ripping his head off but I would like to cause the pain and anger they have put my family through over the last few months, the should be taken off the streets not put back out there where they can cause more harm and damage to innocent hard working people.

I agree whole heartedly....just look at other countries and the justice they dish out,you steal..you loose a hand,you traffic drugs you hang.

Ive always felt that theres simply no excuse for criminals to given an easy life....if the law was much much stricter as in you will be dealt with severely im sure the crime rate would fall and quickly......If some drugy scum bag mutant breaks into my house i will do what ever I feel is needed regardless of what the nampy pamby law says....if some one assualts me,there gonna get slapped twice as hard (simply because i know that if its left up to the justice system very little if anything will be done).

[oldcodger]

I agree whole heartedly....just look at other countries and the justice they dish out,you steal..you loose a hand,you traffic drugs you hang.

And if it worked, those countries would not have any thieves or drug addicts. The fact that they do, shows that extreme punishments do not deter as much as people would like to have us believe.

The only deterrent that seems to work is a very real fear of being caught. That requires a lot money to be spent on a vast increase in police numbers and public willingness to live in a "zero tolerance" environment.

Given the high level of objections to even small rises in taxation where will the money come from?
Given the number of objections to speed cameras will the public put up with a system where feds no longer issue warnings but prosecute EVERY offence they see?

[Mavrik]

And if it worked, those countries would not have any thieves or drug addicts. The fact that they do, shows that extreme punishments do not deter as much as people would like to have us believe.

The only deterrent that seems to work is a very real fear of being caught. That requires a lot money to be spent on a vast increase in police numbers and public willingness to live in a "zero tolerance" environment.

Given the high level of objections to even small rises in taxation where will the money come from?
Given the number of objections to speed cameras will the public put up with a system where feds no longer issue warnings but prosecute EVERY offence they see?

The main objection the public have about speed cameras, is not the camera in itself, its the way its used PURELY to generate revenue, not in the interest of saftey

If the public saw REAL results for their money
If the public saw a level playing field
If the public saw PROPER sentences being handed out
If the public saw Police officers doing their job

Then yes, I think a rise in taxation WOULD be accepted, and Im not talking about motoring offences here.

Look for example at the response time from public calling the police to officer appearing, anything from hours to never, does that really endear the police to the public? do the public really see "value for money" in that?

[oldcodger]

You seem to agree with me that the great British public are not keen to live in a zero tolerance environment.

Imagine the fuss if speed cameras tripped at the posted limit + 1mph.

I saw zero tolerance at work in the US. There is no doubt that the streets are safe late at night, thefts from cars and thefts of cars were very low.
This is wonderful until you end up with a ticket or a court appearance.

a few examples I saw.

getting out of car and the wind blew a sweet paper from the door mounted ashtray - $50 FP

32mph in a 30 - $50 FP

opened car door a couple of inches in order to check if safe to open fully - $300 court fine for "hazardous use of motor vehicle"

headlights dirty - $50 FP

I suspect that if we ever see real zero tolerance in this country all the people who currently complain about the justice system being too lenient would start complaining that the system is too strict.

[Mudflap]

Poeple do not necessarily want zero tolorance just a fair and just judicial system which there clearly is not at present. People want to see a police presence on the streets. Catching speeeding motorists to make the roads safer and not just to raise revenue. All you see at present is the law abiding public being punished financially if they step just momentaraily over the line but the professional or constant law breaker getting away scot free every time.

[ctrlaltdelboy]

....... but the professional or constant law breaker getting away scot free every time.

that's a pretty all-encompassing generalisation, and totally incorrect to boot.

however, I dig the sentiment behind the exaggeration - I think the increasing amount of people who are feeling the same way is certainly not helped by the fact that the imbalance between those who are a true menace to society and those who are bearing the brunt of the punishment being metered out is WAAAY out of kilter.

[oldcodger]

the imbalance between those who are a true menace to society and those who are bearing the brunt of the punishment being metered out is WAAAY out of kilter.

The media have an agenda of their own (more sales or viewers) and jump on whatever bandwagon is currently getting headlines.
The rest of us get our information from the media:(

I am aware that some of the drivers who have been caught by a speed camera think an FP to be an excessive punishment for " just drifting over the limit".
I suppose it depends on your definition of "just drifting", personally I feel that exceeding the limit by more than 10%+2mph doesn't count as just drifting.

As a matter of interest in court just about every defendant claims he/she poses no danger "its the others you need to lock up".

[Drewhound]

As a matter of interest in court just about every defendant claims he/she poses no danger "its the others you need to lock up".

We even see this in the prison system. A murderer gets "respect" but a paedophile doesn't. What sort of logic is that? They are ALL criminals.

I think I'm safe in saying the concencus here is that a fed with discretion is a better way of policing than a camera with no discretion but recently someone has been complaining about a fed using his discretion, ie you can't please all the people all of the time.

[oldcodger]

you can't please all the people all of the time.

Ain't that the truth