just how illegal is getting it sideways?

[the astraboy]

As you can imagine for a Sierra Cosworth owner, its a fairly regular occurance for the back end to step out on me, particually in the wet. I was wondering though, Just how illegal is it for the car to get in this state?Obiviously I tend to avoid broadsiding on the roads (mint cossie, dont want to ruin it etc.) but on occasions she has just stepped out without warning. I've heard varying positions from people who've run out of luck ranging from 6 points to£20 on the spotters with no points.
Can anyone give me a conclusive position?
Cheers in advance,
astraboy.

[Turbo_Steve]

Definitive will be hard:
I would guess it depends "How" sideways and who else was around and how irresponsible you seemed to be being at the time. And whether or not the officer who saw you had scraped a pedestrian off someone elses windscreen that morning or not.

[the astraboy]

I was wondering because I went around for a good six months deliberatly trying not to get it sideways, but it still did it no matter what I tried. Now I tend to cope with it and correct asap when it does happen rather than avoid it.
astraboy.

[VinnyP!]

There's no specific 'law' against getting it sideways. I've owned a couple of cossies and driven a few more and I think you need to get yours looked at if it 'steps out without warning' under normal driving conditions. :| If the car is OK maybe you need some attention particularly in the area of your right foot. :) Now it will step out quite happily if provoked. If you are in control and no one is put a risk, inconvenienced etc, you should be OK if you are out of control you probably won't be. Personally I'd be unhappy I could control a car which is tail out if I'couldn't feel it starting to break away first.
Convincing an officer/court one way or the other may prove slightly more tricky :?

Vince

[Turbo_Steve]

If it is stepping out too suddenly, you definitely have it set up wrong for road usage. Think softer springs/higher profile tyres/adding traction control (only £400!!!) or perhaps adjusting your boost controller so the primary boost targets are a little lower.

[LB]

Yeah the only thing I can think off of the top of my head would be driving without due consideration for other road users, if someone had to take evasive action, or careless driving in the event of an accident.

[-=Buzz=-]

Astraboy, do you think its "fuel surge" ? ;)

[Turbo_Steve]

Isn't that Saxo Boy?

[the astraboy]

TBH, I've been getting better about anticpating it. I drive the car about once a week and never during the week so I've not driven it enough to really get to grips with it. I've been to one of Gossy's drift days and that helped loads. Its hard to describe but I can feel the rear tyres squirming and the LSD starting to work and as I can feel it, I can back off before it happens. However, I've been caught out before, a wet roundabout outside an industrial estate on the way to santapod leaps to mind (mostly cos it happened so bloody quickly. :o )
Anyways, cheers for the advice, I like to think I'm always in control when it does step out, if I werent, lets face it, a car like that would be more than capable of swapping ends if I werent in control, would it not?
as has been said before though, the tricky bit would be convinving a humourless traffic office of the above :D
Cheers again,
astraboy.
P.S. Saxoboy has the fuel surge fetish, not me. ;-)

[Turbo_Steve]

Festish? :eek:



Is your car standard? If not...what mods are we talking?

[Dracoro]

Yesterday it started raining for the first time in ages (so roads become more slippery than usual.
My S's rear came out a bit and I controlled it without bother, all at quite low speeds though. I stopped at red traffic lights and a police car pulled up next to me and the passenger policeman opened up his window and said 'nice bit of control there mate, keep it up and take care and the driver gave me the thumbs up too'. I was more concerned that I hadn't seen him behind me! (note to self, must use mirrors more!)

I think it's depends on the circumstances and whether you have controlled the car etc. If you deliberately blatted it round the corner, back comes out, just manage to catch it before hitting something, other drivers having to take evasive action etc. then you'll be in trouble.

If you're SEEN to do it under control without creating and danger then you're ok in most eyes I'd guess.

[T.C]

Letting the back end step out sideways or drifting as far as offences are concerned would really depend on the circumstances.

There are a number of options,

1. Section 3 of the Road traffic act 1988 Driving without due care and attention.

2. Failing to maintain a proper control of ther vehicle (I can't remember the act and section at the moment)

or it may come down to a construction and use offence, for example if there is a defect with the suspension, steering or other part of the vehicle used in its control.

If it was considered that it was being done deliberatley, then without doubt the section 3 offence possibly even a section 2 Dangerous Driving offence may be applied. It is one that IMO a specific answer for the question cannot be given.

[Aidy]

Sounds to me that either your car is not in a roadworthy condition (what you are implying) or that you are not in proper control of it (probably more likely :))

Other cosie owners could probably advise on better wet-grip tyres to use.

[Danbo]

I agree with T.C. The options are as he has outlined.

However, as with anything there are always times and places where there will never be a problem with 'getting the back end out'. You just need to use some common sense.

I even indulge myself occasionally.

[the astraboy]

<Sounds to me that either your car is not in a roadworthy condition (what you are implying) >
not in the least, the car is in VERY good condition, she just steps out every now and again
I'm running Falkens at the moment which are better than the Yokahamas the car came with. It was silly in the wet with them on!
astraboy.

[LB]

I'd be dubious about Dangerous Driving myself unless an rtc occured or someone had to take some kind of evasive action , I'd concur with careless driving though.

[-=Buzz=-]

I never claimed it was you Astraboy, I was just giving you a "get out" to escape from all the protestors who I thought would clamour for your head, given your "dangerous manouevors" (sp?) ;)

[Turbo_Steve]

Just like to re-iterate...is the car modified? Adjusting the boost control for a lower first boost target will usually cure "step outs" in the wet, becuase you don't suddenly hit a wall of torque thru the rear wheels.

[Dracoro]

The rear coming out is a natural trait of rear wheels drive cars.

Astraboy - Is yours a 4wd cossie or a RWD cossie?

[Turbo_Steve]

The back coming out is a trait of RWD cars either being driven unsympathetically, or coming on boost too quickly, creating a sudden increase in torque which spins up the rear wheels.

MR2 Turbos are known for getting modified and then suddenly becoming "Step out" machines if they don't have proper boost control.

[Aidy]

> MR2 Turbos are known for getting modified and then
> suddenly becoming "Step out" machines

Not true

> if they don't have proper boost control.

Don't see what "boost control" has to do with it. Certainly not as much as fitted decent rubber. Remember, your tyres are the *only* thing that holds you to the road. If you loose traction you have applied more force than the tyre can handle. This could be because you are loading directional torque onto a tyre already loaded with cornering force...or just too much power in a straight line.

The remedy is to fit better tyres, or learn how to control your car. No car "steps out" on its own with poor driver control.

[Aidy]

No car "steps out" on its own with poor driver control.

Erm....*without* poor driver control :)

[Turbo_Steve]

I totally agree about the tyres......
But my experiences with turbos (specifically tuned up supras with no LSD) is that if you don't "Stage" the boost then in the wet you go all over the place. Fun, but not ideal. :D
The last one I saw had a massive exhaust and headers and was running 1.1Bar. He had Toyo Proxes on the standard wheels and would spin up on the motorway if you nailed the loud pedal from 65 in 4th. :eek:

I will take your word for it on the MR2 turbos. I've seen a modified one loose traction as it came on boost.....but it was on standard wheels and tyres running "silly" psi.
I've heard a lot of reports of them being "a handful" with sudden torque introduction.

Driver skill is still the predominant factor, though: Unless you happen to be running slicks in the wet :D