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Thread: Flashing lights on vehicles

  1. #1

    Default Flashing lights on vehicles

    I thought that this might prove a useful thread to answer some questions re Flashing light usage.

    Blue Light Use

    We are often asked where people stand on fitting blue, green or amber lights to their vehicles. Many people find the regulations difficult to read and interpret and are unsure about the use of lights on their vehicles. Because of this, we have put together a summary of the regulations in straightforward English!
    Jump to:
    > Blue Light Exemptions
    >
    Emergency Vehicle Definition
    > Summary of Lighting Rules
    > When Flashing Lights Can Be Used
    > Changes Made in 2005
    > Preserved Emergency Vehicles
    > Lifeboat Crew Members
    > Retained Firefighters
    > Ambulance Community First Responders
    > Animal Ambulances
    > Legal Documents





    Blue Light Exemptions
    There is no authority that issues permission to use blue, green or amber lights on your vehicle. You must just follow the law.
    Any driver can drive using blue lights without needing any higher qualification that a driving licence. Most services do insist on their drivers undergoing some form of advanced driver training though, and there are moves to establishing a national standard.
    While using blue lights, drivers are exempt from a number of motoring regulations, including
    • treating a red traffic light as a give way sign
    • passing to the wrong side of a keep left bollard
    • driving on a motorway hard shoulder (even against the direction of traffic)
    • disobeying the speed limit (police, fire and ambulance services only)

    However, they are not allowed to
    • ignore a 'no entry' sign
    • ignore a 'stop' or 'give way' sign
    • drive the wrong way down a one-way street
    • ignore flashing signs at level crossings or fire stations
    • cross a solid white line down the middle of the road*
    *except in the same circumstances as everyone else (for instance to pass a stationary vehicle, slow moving cyclist or horse, or a road maintenance vehicle). This can cause problems for emergency drivers when other road users slow to let them pass where road markings indicate no overtaking.

    Sometimes emergency vehicles may need to disobey ot
    her signs and regulations. This will depend on the professional judgment of the driver.

    Emergency Vehicle Definition
    An emergency vehicle is classed as a vehicle used:
    • <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">for police purposes (but not necessarily a police vehicle, e.g. search and rescue) <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">for fire brigade purposes (but not necessarily a fire brigade vehicle) <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">for ambulance purposes (but not necessarily an ambulance vehicle, e.g. mountain rescue) <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">as an ambulance for moving sick, injured or disabled people <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">by a specialist company for fire salvage work <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">by the Forestry Commission for fire fighting <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">by local councils for fire fighting <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">for bomb disposal <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">for nuclear accidents <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">by the RAF mountain rescue <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">by the National Blood Service <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">by HM Coastguard <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">for mine rescue <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">by the RNLI for launching lifeboats <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l2 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">for moving around human organs
    • by Revenue and Customs for serious crime


    An abnormal load escort vehicle is classed as:
    • A vehicle that is clearly marked so the public know it is for escorting abnormal loads. It must have something written on the front and reflective markings on the sides and back.

    Summary of Lighting Rules
    In the regulations, lights, reflectors and reflective material are all classed as lights on cars (this means that the public cannot have blue reflective graphics for example).
    Any colour light is OK to be on a vehicle if it is covered up or not connected up (excluding blue).
    Only emergency vehicles can be fitted with a blue flashing light, or anything that looks like a blue flashing light, whether working or not.
    Some of the rules do not apply if the vehicle has just been imported or is about to be exported, or if it is a visiting foreign vehicle.


    You canít have a red light showing at the front except:
    • a red and white chequered light on a fire service control vehicle
    • a side marker
    • a reflector on the wheel of a cycle, motorbike or invalid carriage
    • a traffic sign attached to the vehicle


    You can only have a steady white light to the front and a steady red light showing to the rear of your vehicle. The exceptions to this are:
    BLUE
    • flashing from an emergency vehicle
    • flashing or constant from a police vehicle
    GREEN
    • on a doctorís car
    WHITE
    • reversing lights
    • work lamps
    AMBER
    • any vehicleís indicators
    • amber pedal reflectors or pedal lights
    • reflected from a registration plate
    • reflected from a road clearance vehicle
    • reflected from a vehicle carrying dangerous substances
    • reflected on some old or heavy vehicles
    • flashing amber lights on
    • a road clearance vehicle
    • a bin lorry
    • a breakdown vehicle
    • a vehicle with a 25 mph top speed
    • a vehicle wider than 2.9 metres
    • a roadworks vehicle
    • an escort vehicle
    • a Revenue and Customs vehicle
    • a surveying vehicle
    • a clamping or tow truck vehicle
    • airport vehicles
    • any other specially authorised vehicle


    ANY COLOUR
    • for interior lighting
    • for registration plate lighting
    • for taxi meter lighting
    • for bus route sign lighting
    • from a traffic sign attached to a vehicle
    • any colour from the reflectors on a wheel of a cycle, motorbike or invalid carriage
    ALSO
    • white and blue chequered light from a police control vehicle
    • white and red chequered light from a fire control vehicle
    • white and green chequered light from an ambulance control vehicle



    Any flashing warning beacon that rotates must be mounted 1.2 meters above the ground.
    You must be able to clearly see one or more flashing warning lights from any 'reasonable' position around the vehicle
    There are no restrictions on the size of the beam of light, wattage or intensity.
    Each warning light should flash between 1 and 4 times per second and spend an equal amount of time on and off (meaning strobes are not covered).


    You canít have a moving light on a vehicle except for:
    • headlamp fine adjustment
    • a light which turns with the steering wheels
    • pop-up headlights
    • indicators on old vehicles
    • work lamps
    • flashing warning lights
    • reflectors on the wheels of cycles, motorbikes or invalid carriages

    You canít have a flashing light except for:
    • indicators
    • headlights on an emergency vehicle
    • flashing lights as described above (on emergency vehicles and vehicles permitted to show other coloured flashing lights)
    • a light or sign on a vehicle used for police purposes
    • a green light used as an anti-lock braking indicator
    • lights on a traffic sign attached to a vehicle
    • flashing white lights on the front of a cycle
    • flashing red lights on the back of a cycle


    All lights should be of British Standard
    All lights for normal night driving should be switched on by one switch (including headlights, side markers and rear registration lights).
    To use a vehicle that that doesnít go above 25 mph on a normal dual carriageway you need to fit an amber flashing light. It is OK if you have a very old car or are just crossing the dual carriageway.


    Your front and rear lights (including indicators and rear reflectors) must be visible when all the doors, bonnet, boot or similar are open.
    You canít have objects overhanging your vehicle greatly without fitting extra lights or warning signs to them.
    All your lights need to be clean and working. Reflectors just need to work. The exceptions to this are when:
    • <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo7; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">the light does not need to be seen because you are towing a trailer which has lights <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo7; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">a light has just stopped working on your current journey
    • you have tried everything reasonable to fix it

    When Flashing Lights Can Be Used

    The only times when you can use your blue flashing light are when you are:
    • <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo8; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">at the scene of an emergency <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo8; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">responding to an emergency <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo8; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">wanting to let people know you are there
    • wanting to let people know that there is a hazard on the road



    The only times when you can use your amber flashing light are when you are:
    • <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo8; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">at the scene of an emergency <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo8; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">wanting to let people know you are there <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo8; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">at or near an accident or broken-down vehicle <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo8; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">towing a broken-down vehicle <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo8; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">escorting a very long or wide vehicle (below 25 mph, unless you are in an abnormal load escort vehicle)
    • have special authority



    The only times when you can use your green flashing light are when you are:
    • using the vehicle for an emergency and have a doctor on board

    Changes Made in 2005
    A number of small changes were made to the lighting regulations in 2005. These are shown in the main document where appropriate, but are summarised here:
    • Emergency vehicles no longer have to have a motor (e.g. cycles)
    • Anyone can use flashing lights on their cycles (1-4 flashes per second, equal amount of time on and off, usual colours)
    • Cycles with lights in the pedals or attached to the wheels are now permitted
    • Revenue and Customs are allowed to use blue flashing lights when investigating serious crime.
    • An abnormal load escort vehicle is defined and allowed to use amber flashing lights above 25 mph
    • Officially authorised vehicle examiners can drive a vehicle on the road which does not have the correct lighting if it is going to or returning from a test, and they donít believe the defects are dangerous


    Preserved Emergency Vehicles
    Preserved emergency vehicles are not officially permitted to have blue lights attached to them when on the road, even if they are completely covered up and inoperable. Usually common sense prevails and if there is no way of being able to see the blue light unit then the police are happy. In 2008 a petition was created to change this law to the 'common sense' definition.
    Read the proposal and the government's response

    Lifeboat Crew Members
    We are often asked by lifeboat crew volunteers if they can fit blue lights to their private cars to get to the lifeboat station quickly when they are alerted to an emergency by pager. The simple answer is no! The only land-going vehicles allowed to have blue flashing lights in this situation are RNLI vehicles specifically designed for the launching of a lifeboat. There are often tractor-type vehicles with the capability to drive into water. Other private lifeboat services are not permitted blue lights, unless being used for a dual purpose, e.g. an ambulance. Crew members are not permitted to use any other colour of warning beacon either. It would not be appropriate to use amber lights as this situation falls outside of the definition of amber light use (see above) and would not speed the journey up at all. One legal alternative is to have a sign on the car to indicate the driver is part of the lifeboat crew. This does not permit any exemptions from road traffic law but does convey the intended message.


    Retained Firefighters
    We are often asked by retained firefighters if they can fit blue lights to their private cars to get to the fire station quickly when they are called out to an emergency. The simple answer is no! To be permitted to use blue lights, the private car would need to be registered as an emergency vehicle, have insurance as an emergency vehicles, be approved for use by the fire brigade and the driver suitably trained to drive using blue lights. This situation is unlikely to be commonplace. No other colour of flashing light is allowed. One legal alternative is to have a sign on the car to indicate the driver is part of the fire brigade. This does not permit any exemptions from road traffic law but does convey the intended message. It should be noted however that senior fire officers are often given company cars fitted with blue lights as part of their job to respond to major incidents outside of their normal working hours.


    Ambulance Community First Responders
    We are often asked by first responders if they can fit blue lights to their private cars to get to calls quickly when they are called out to an emergency, particularly heart attacks and people who've stopped breathing. The simple answer is no! To be permitted to use blue lights, the private car would need to be registered as an emergency vehicle, have insurance as an emergency vehicles, be approved by the ambulance service and the driver trained to run on blue lights. By the design of this service, responders should not have to travel far to emergency calls. During their journey to the emergency they have no exemptions of road traffic law.
    Some ambulance services supply responders with a liveried-up car for their work. This may help other road users to see that an emergency response is in progress. In the former Staffordshire Ambulance Service area, responders were given vehicles fitted with blue lights. This practice has since stopped after it was criticised by a Healthcare Commission report.


    Animal Ambulances
    We have been asked a number of times about animal ambulances using blue flashing lights. When used on private land this is usually permissible, for instance at a racecourse with the organiser's permission. However the lights should be covered up when on the road. The transportation of sick or injured animals does not fall into the definition of an ambulance for the purpose of the lighting regulations. Occasionally police will permit blue lights to be used on the road when being escorted by a police vehicle also showing blue flashing lights.
    Some animal ambulance companies have an understanding with the local police that they can show blue light (switched on or not) on their vehicles. It is recommended that a formal Memorandum Of Understanding (MOU) is written up and signed by both sides to help reduce the chance of a prosecution for incorrect lighting. This agreement would then only be valid in the local police force area, and not in any other part of the country.

  2. #2

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    You seem to have left out when you can use the hazard wrning lights on a vehicle.

  3. #3

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    OK... Only when stationary or on approach to a hazard to warn other road users of the danger... ie approaching slow / stationary traffic ahead on the motorway

  4. #4
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    so...westbound on the M180 today, passed a car being towed by another car...the rear [casualty] vehicle had hazard warning lights flashing.

    A bit pointless making an issue of things...the guy obviously felt he was being ever so safe a driver, even if both drivers had/have so blindingly got hol;d of the wrong end of this 'driving' lark...

    I made at least 3 offences....hazrd lights flashing whilst moving, failing to display the reg. number of the tow vehicle, on the rear of the casualty vehicle....and a failure to display an 'on tow' sign to the rear of the casualty vehicle.

    {are the above actually 'offences??]

    Likley offences could be, teh driver of the tow car not having B+E licence....not essential, but came across the entourage just after joining the motorway from Humber bridge road [A15]....so, either one car broke down just past exit road.....so had to be towed to the next [S****horpe] exit.....or....the whole tow commenced beofre the previous exit, and they were towing 'past a safe location' which would land a cat B licence holder in the poo...that's if the Lincolnshire plod could even be bothered?
    No, I don't think all other drivers are idiots.................but some are determined to change my mind!

  5. #5

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    You can tow a trailer without a B+E license as long as the combinational weight is less than 3500kg, and the trailer is less than the weight of the car

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    Quote Originally Posted by peodude View Post
    You can tow a trailer without a B+E license as long as the combinational weight is less than 3500kg, and the trailer is less than the weight of the car
    If you passed your standard car test post August 1st 1997, the limit of the trailer must not exceed 750 kgs and exceed the combinational weight stated

    Prior to this the entitlement is a combinational weight of 8250 KGs I believe.

    Channa
    We would worry less about what others think of us if we realized how seldom they do.
    Ethel Barrett

  7. #7

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    The official wording off Directgov is

    Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
    You can tow more than 750kg, providing that it is less than the weight of the car. My car weighs 1510kg, so i can tow a 1510kg trailer, as the trailer is not more than the car and the total is under the 3500kg

  8. #8

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    Towing veicles should not display hazard lights.... nor should the towing vehicle.
    As for number plate well... where on earth will you find one of them at short notice, and in anycase its not really a trailer its a disabled vehicle and is displaying its own reg number.. cant see a problem with that. And the law does not dictate that you have a " On tow" sign

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    Quote Originally Posted by wazza View Post
    Towing veicles should not display hazard lights.... nor should the towing vehicle.
    As for number plate well... where on earth will you find one of them at short notice, and in anycase its not really a trailer its a disabled vehicle and is displaying its own reg number.. cant see a problem with that. And the law does not dictate that you have a " On tow" sign

    a disabled vehicle is a trailer in licensing terms, therefore should display the reg no. of the towing vehicle...as a trailer should.
    (this licensing thing may be a grey area with regards to cat B, but is cut 'n dried regarding cat C and Cat D.....when towing a lorry with another, the lead driver must have C+E...same with buses, and cat D.]

    A recovery vehicle will have a light board......and if a short-notice jobbie, then I'm sure SOME effort will be appreciated and noted.. [large bit of paper/card, with reg no. felt -tipped on??].after all, if a road user has an issue wth the casualty vehicle, then they should be able to extract teh tow vehicle's reg no......just like they should if the rear vehicle is a trailer.
    No, I don't think all other drivers are idiots.................but some are determined to change my mind!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
    a disabled vehicle is a trailer in licensing terms, therefore should display the reg no. of the towing vehicle...as a trailer should.
    This seems to be another grey area, does the car really become a trailer, or not? Not forgetting that a towed car still needs road tax and insurance, whereas a trailer does not.

    If it's a trailer, then it should have the towing registration plate, no need for tax or insurance.
    If it's not a trailer, then it uses it's own plate with tax and insurance

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    5ive-o User Arryace's Avatar
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    i don't think it's so much of a grey area it's more a case of the application of common sense.
    if (casualty) vehicle had broken down on the motorway and was being towed out of harms way, maybe off at the next junction i think it would be deemed acceptable to do so without a light board or extra numberplate.
    if said car had been purchased and was being towed from one house to another via the motorway then you would expect a numberplate matching the towing vehicle to be displayed.
    to find the limit first you have to crash, thats the easy bit, the difficult bit is remembering where that limit was just before you crashed
    'Valentino Rossi'

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    If it's a trailer, then it should have the towing registration plate, no need for tax or insurance.
    If it's not a trailer, then it uses it's own plate with tax and insurance

    The need for registration number, tax , insurance and MoT arise from 'keeping a motor vehicle on the public highway'.............it is irrelevant whether the engine actually works or not.

    The definition of a trailer is something entirely seperate....

    A motor vehicle, when being towed, is physically attached behind another vehicle..ie a trailer.

    [it may only have two wheels in contact with the ground, ie on a dolly...or it may be towed using an A-frame...the only time said motor vehicle does not need T,T and Ins, is when it is WHOLLY off the ground, ie on a trailer.]

    During the course of the tow, the driver of the tow vehicle assumes full responsibility for the whole outfit.

    Hence the need to have the tow vehicle's reg no. displayed on the rear......in the same way such number needs displaying if towing a caravan......or on the rear of an artic trailer.

    Imagine what would happen if a driver was towing another vehicle, without the correct reg displayed to the rear, and went through a speed detection device above the threshold limit?

    The only reason why the regulations regarding the type of licence needed by the tow driver of a car, have been modified to obviate the need for B+E was a matter of expediency...and carried severe restrictions.

    Such amendments do not apply once the category of licence required is C or D...ie LGV or PCV.

    Therefore there must be a legal intention to regard a towed vehicle as a trailer in the practical sense.....with all that goes with that....

    Even certain large [lgv] trailers require someone else to steer them......so the issue of a second 'driver' really doesn't warrant concern..except that, they only require the holdng of a licence appropriate to that particular vehicle....since they themselves are not towing anything.
    No, I don't think all other drivers are idiots.................but some are determined to change my mind!

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    5ive-o User Arryace's Avatar
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    The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999
    (7) A person who holds a relevant full licence authorising the driving of vehicles of a class included in category B, other than vehicles in sub-categories B1 or B1 (invalid carriages), may drive a vehicle of a class included in category B+E where -



    • (a) the trailer consists of a vehicle which is damaged or defective and is likely to represent a road safety hazard or obstruction to other road users,

      (b) the vehicle is driven only so far as is reasonably necessary in the circumstances to remove the hazard or obstruction, and

      (c) he receives no consideration for driving the vehicle,


    • consists of? that means makes up part of
      i.e. the US consists of 50 states
      if said vehicle became a trailer in it's own right then the SI would surely use consists in.

      and as we seem to be talking in terms of the law your cardboard number plate would not be acceptable as a non conforming numberplate is not a numberplate (in the eyes of the law)
    to find the limit first you have to crash, thats the easy bit, the difficult bit is remembering where that limit was just before you crashed
    'Valentino Rossi'

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    5ive-o User Arryace's Avatar
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    Back on Topic

    There is no authority that issues permission to use blue, green or amber lights on your vehicle. You must just follow the law.
    Any driver can drive using blue lights without needing any higher qualification that a driving licence.
    has this changed?
    i thought there were changes due to the increasing numbers of private ambulances.
    the reason i ask is i am planning to ride for these chaps Freewheelers EVS
    to find the limit first you have to crash, thats the easy bit, the difficult bit is remembering where that limit was just before you crashed
    'Valentino Rossi'

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
    [it may only have two wheels in contact with the ground, ie on a dolly...or it may be towed using an A-frame...the only time said motor vehicle does not need T,T and Ins, is when it is WHOLLY off the ground, ie on a trailer.]
    Any idea when this rule came into force, and is there an offical document relating to it?

  16. #16

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    You can only have a steady white light to the front and a steady red light showing to the rear of your vehicle.
    This is not entirely true since indicators may be amber or white at the front and amber or red at the rear.

    All lights should be of British Standard
    This requirement can be over-ridden by EU type approval. For example, AIUI, there is no BS for LED lights; however, they are permitted on vehicle having EU type approval

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    Any idea when this rule came into force, and is there an offical document relating to it?
    it isn't a 'rule'......

    if a vehicle is on a trailer, it is not 'used' or 'kept' on the public highway.......if part of that vehicle is 'touching' the road, then it is 'kept' on the highway.

    Therefore, if one has a wreck of a vehicle, which cannot be taxed or is not insured, then to move it a trailer should be used.

    Towing on a dolly, which utilises at least 2 of that vehicle's wheels, then it is in contact with the highway...so technically should be taxed etc.

    References will be found under VED?
    No, I don't think all other drivers are idiots.................but some are determined to change my mind!

  18. #18

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    When Im using blues and sirens on the motorway I often think that no one notices them. I have lost count of the amount of times that some one has undertaken the van. It may be limited to 80 MPH but we then have to fight our way through the same cars when hitting congestion further along the motorway!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wazza View Post
    [CENTER][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=4However, they are not allowed to
    • ignore a 'no entry' sign
    • ignore a 'stop' or 'give way' sign
    • drive the wrong way down a one-way street
    • ignore flashing signs at level crossings or fire stations
    • cross a solid white line down the middle of the road*
    *except in the same circumstances as everyone else (for instance to pass a stationary vehicle, slow moving cyclist or horse, or a road maintenance vehicle). This can cause problems for emergency drivers when other road users slow to let them pass where road markings indicate no overtaking.

    Sometimes emergency vehicles may need to disobey ot
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]her signs and regulations. This will depend on the professional judgment of the driver.
    As far as I know most (all?) no entry and one way systems exempt Police and lot's of other vehicles (Council vehicles etc) as part of the order. Vehicles of the Serious Organised Crime Agency are exempt from white line systems.
    www.vinnyp.co.uk
    I post here as an individual and am just expressing an opinion. For legal advice please see a solicitor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arryace View Post
    Back on Topic


    has this changed?
    i thought there were changes due to the increasing numbers of private ambulances.
    the reason i ask is i am planning to ride for these chaps Freewheelers EVS
    You can't exceed the speed limit though unless you have had training to do so.
    www.vinnyp.co.uk
    I post here as an individual and am just expressing an opinion. For legal advice please see a solicitor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnyP! View Post
    You can't exceed the speed limit though unless you have had training to do so.
    I didn't think this part of the Road Safety Act was enacted yet? I thought all you needed at the moment in the eyes of the law was a valid DSA licence plus usual exemption for police, fire or ambulance purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LXT View Post
    I didn't think this part of the Road Safety Act was enacted yet? I thought all you needed at the moment in the eyes of the law was a valid DSA licence plus usual exemption for police, fire or ambulance purpose.
    Not sure how long it's been enacted but it is in now. The RTRA 84 has been amended

    87(3) But (except where it is being used for training the person by whom it is being driven) by a person who has been trained in driving vehicles at high speeds.
    www.vinnyp.co.uk
    I post here as an individual and am just expressing an opinion. For legal advice please see a solicitor.

  23. #23
    5ive-o member LXT's Avatar
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    Interesting, I was not even aware of that change.

    It looks like it was the result of an amendment made by the 'Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005'. I appears the Road Safety Act (the part relating to speed exemptions which is not yet enacted) is looking to control this further by stipulating exactly what training is needed and who is authorised to provide it and at what cost.

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    This seems to be another grey area, does the car really become a trailer, or not? Not forgetting that a towed car still needs road tax and insurance, whereas a trailer does not.


    185 Meaning of “motor vehicle” and other expressions relating to vehicles
    (1) In this Act—
    • “heavy locomotive” means a mechanically propelled vehicle which is not constructed itself to carry a load other than any of the excepted articles and the weight of which unladen exceeds 11690 kilograms,
    • “heavy motor car” means a mechanically propelled vehicle, not being a motor car, which is constructed itself to carry a load or passengers and the weight of which unladen exceeds 2540 kilograms,
    • “invalid carriage” means a mechanically propelled vehicle the weight of which unladen does not exceed 254 kilograms and which is specially designed and constructed, and not merely adapted, for the use of a person suffering from some physical defect or disability and is used solely by such a person,
    • “light locomotive” means a mechanically propelled vehicle which is not constructed itself to carry a load other than any of the excepted articles and the weight of which unladen does not exceed 11690 kilograms but does exceed 7370 kilograms,
    • “motor car” means a mechanically propelled vehicle, not being a motor cycle or an invalid carriage, which is constructed itself to carry a load or passengers and the weight of which unladen—
    (a) if it is constructed solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects, is adapted to carry not more than seven passengers exclusive of the driver and is fitted with tyres of such type as may be specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State, does not exceed 3050 kilograms,
    (b) if it is constructed or adapted for use for the conveyance of goods or burden of any description, does not exceed 3050 kilograms, or 3500 kilograms if the vehicle carries a container or containers for holding for the purposes of its propulsion any fuel which is wholly gaseous at 17.5 degrees Celsius under a pressure of 1.013 bar or plant and materials for producing such fuel,
    (c) does not exceed 2540 kilograms in a case not falling within sub-paragraph (a) or (b) above,
    • “motor cycle” means a mechanically propelled vehicle, not being an invalid carriage, with less than four wheels and the weight of which unladen does not exceed 410 kilograms,
    • “motor tractor” means a mechanically propelled vehicle which is not constructed itself to carry a load, other than the excepted articles, and the weight of which unladen does not exceed 7370 kilograms,
    • “motor vehicle” means, subject to section 20 of the [1970 c. 44.] Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970 (which makes special provision about invalid carriages, within the meaning of that Act), a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on roads, and
    • “trailer” means a vehicle drawn by a motor vehicle.
    I guess that's the chapter and verse on the defintion a towed vehicle comes under?
    No, I don't think all other drivers are idiots.................but some are determined to change my mind!

  25. #25
    5ive-o User Arryace's Avatar
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    but they cant have it all their own way.

    ďtrailerĒ means a vehicle drawn by a motor vehicle.
    • motor vehicleĒ means, a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on roads
    a towed motor vehicle requires tax and ins. even if it is not mechanicaly propelled in it's own rights yet here it states it becomes a trailer
    to find the limit first you have to crash, thats the easy bit, the difficult bit is remembering where that limit was just before you crashed
    'Valentino Rossi'

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    It's a trailer and a motor vehicle. But if there is someone at the wheel it is being driven not towed.
    www.vinnyp.co.uk
    I post here as an individual and am just expressing an opinion. For legal advice please see a solicitor.

  27. #27

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    From previous experience, my understanding is that the vehicle being towed is covered by the towing vehicle's documents.
    The person steering the towed vehicle does not require a licence, as they are not driving.

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    certain large [lgv] trailers require someone else to steer them......
    oversize loads required a steersman for the rear trailer bogies......
    No, I don't think all other drivers are idiots.................but some are determined to change my mind!

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by spinlondon View Post
    From previous experience, my understanding is that the vehicle being towed is covered by the towing vehicle's documents.
    The person steering the towed vehicle does not require a licence, as they are not driving.

    Sorry you are wrong...

    incharge of steering , Propulsion or breaking one is driving.

    You do require a licence, and insurance and an MOT when in a disabled vehicle being towed.

    The towing vehicle's documentation does not cover the vehicle being towed

    You cant have a 10 yr old without a licence or insurance in charge of a vehicle being towed ! or a disqualified driver doing the same. or even your pet dog iether

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by wazza View Post
    Sorry you are wrong...

    incharge of steering , Propulsion or breaking one is driving.

    You do require a licence, and insurance and an MOT when in a disabled vehicle being towed.

    The towing vehicle's documentation does not cover the vehicle being towed

    You cant have a 10 yr old without a licence or insurance in charge of a vehicle being towed ! or a disqualified driver doing the same. or even your pet dog iether
    I think we've had this discussion before.
    Judging from my experience in London and Essex, no documentation is required.
    This could just be due to ignorance on behalf of the Police Officers, I don't know.
    I do know of a case in Essex where an underage driver was reported for this matter, but no prosecution was brought. I don't know why he wasn't prosecuted, but as he was too young to hold a licence and the car being towed had no MOT or tax, I would have thought it was a prima face case.

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